Obama to "REBOOT" US Image Among World Muslims, Will Use His "Whole" Name

[Heidi Salazar]

Good for him!

 

[Eryn Baugh]

I will agree with Lloyd on one thing.  I respect the office of the President but I don't have to respect the occupant.

And I still believe that we have not gotten all the information about Obama and his time in Indonesia.  The enrollment papers clearly states that he was and Indonesian citizen which means that either his mother or stepfather or both signed away his American citizenship to get him enrolled in school.  He became a citizen of Indonesia.  His coming back to America would have necessitated him going through immigration and becoming naturalized.  Simple point is that somehow this country managed to elect an illegal alien as the President.    Hmmm...and from the corrupt political machine of Chicago nonetheless?  Kinda makes sense in a twisted fashion.

[JT]

Come on man.  You know that's BS.  Obama was elected by the citizens of this country.  You might not like him personally, but he is gonna be your President.  I read a biography of Chester Nimitz recently.  Being a retired swabbie you are certainly familiar with the man.  He evidently had a daughter who could not stand FDR.  They were somewhere and FDR was coming by and his daughter stated that she was not going to stand up for FDR.  Nimitz looked at her and told her, you don't have to stand up for FDR, but you will stand up for the President of the United States.  Nimitz was a smart man and maybe there is a lesson in that for folks.

All very true, Lloyd.  But after the excoriating way in which Democrats have talked of Bush, and how the much of the media has treated him, is it really too much of a surprise that Republicans are returning fire on Obama?  The Democrats' erstwhile behaviour does not justify the Republicans', but it does explain it.

Revenge.  Dish.  Served cold.

Good for him!

No, it's really not.  Presidents (and other political figures) traditionally use their full legal name when being sworn in, thus it should be expected of Obama.  For his supporters - or indeed himself - to champion this for whatever reason is abjectly stupid.  It can only serve to drive a further wedge between Obama supporters and Obama detractors ostensibly concerned of his potential Muslim sympathies.  In a man who likes to indirectly compare himself to Abe Lincoln and wishes to build a Cabinet composed of a Team of Rivals, this is not a good thing.

Furthermore, Pizz, for somebody who describes himself as an alienated Republican, you should recognise the adverse effects of blind and immutable partisanship and its impedance of good government - and be wary of reversing your partisanship.  Way to go...

I will agree with Lloyd on one thing.  I respect the office of the President but I don't have to respect the occupant.

And I still believe that we have not gotten all the information about Obama and his time in Indonesia.  The enrollment papers clearly states that he was and Indonesian citizen which means that either his mother or stepfather or both signed away his American citizenship to get him enrolled in school.  He became a citizen of Indonesia.  His coming back to America would have necessitated him going through immigration and becoming naturalized.  Simple point is that somehow this country managed to elect an illegal alien as the President.    Hmmm...and from the corrupt political machine of Chicago nonetheless?  Kinda makes sense in a twisted fashion.

My understanding of immigration law isn't fantastic by any means, but I think this could depend on the laws of Indonesia.  In some countries, one has to renounce allegiance to one's former country and birthplace to attain citizenship.  (I know Brits who have U.S. citizenship who had to haul themselves before a U.S. District judge to renounce their allegiance to Queen and Country.)  However, if Indonesia allows its citizens to hold dual-nationality, then Obama's (step-)parents may not have had to divest the young Obama of his American citizenship to obtain an Indonesian passport - although in doing so they may have violated U.S. law.

But Obama's birth certificate has been published and is reported to be genuine by those who have examined it.  The State of Hawaii has confirmed that it has the original certificate in its possession stored in a vault.  I think we can at least agree that Obama had the right to be POTUS at birth.

[Michael]

It's not strange at all Michael.  It is a tradition in this country that Presidents are sworn in using their full names.

Ok, but why is this news so important if every former president uses his full name? Why will he show something to the muslim world if he makes nothing else then "standard"?

Michael

[Lloyd]

All very true, Lloyd.  But after the excoriating way in which Democrats have talked of Bush, and how the much of the media has treated him, is it really too much of a surprise that Republicans are returning fire on Obama?  The Democrats' erstwhile behaviour does not justify the Republicans', but it does explain it.

Revenge.  Dish.  Served cold.

It is not a surprise in the least.  It is totally expected.  But I ask you this.  Do two wrongs make a right?  I think not.

I voted for Bush first time out and my opinion of him only changed later.  However, despite no longer supporting him (in my opinion which is the only one that counts as far as my support goes, deservedly so) I have never bashed him as many do.  The point I am trying to make here is that a vast majority of the bashing is harmful to this country.  Are we saying that because Bush was bashed, as payback it is ok to bash Obama?  I'm quite sure liberals will say the Bush bashing was a result of Clinton bashing.  And I'm not defending Clinton so I don't need a litany of all his sins.  The bashing has become a way of life in this country, which I think can be traced directly to these right wing and left wing radio and TV talk shows, or maybe to the left wing and right wing radio and TV talk shows(the order listed makes no difference).  They encourage people to take extremist views.  I believe these extemesit view shows initially were popular and stayed on the air simply because they were novel and got good ratings because they were controversial, yet now have become the norm. 

[JT]

I said that myself: "The Democrats' erstwhile behaviour does not justify the Republicans'."

The Democrats have spent the last eight years criticising Bush - during much of that time the criticism was unrelentingly vitriolic.  Yet now they inanely wonder why the Republicans are reciprocating by returning fire at Obama.  It beggars belief.  BOTH sides need to settle the **** down.

[pizzpoor]

The election is over.  Obama is YOUR president. He didnt choose his middle name. I dont give a tinkers damn what he did when he was in pakistan, Indonesia, or Louisiana. And you dont need to know either.  And a voting block encompassing 350+ electoral votes dont care either. It is NOT important, even if he was coronated a card carrying communist Muslim over wherever he was.  Get over it. Grampy lost, and deservedly so. The GOP has no answers, or they would have offered some. Its too late now.  Also, Lets not forget what Obama is replacing. NO way things could get any worse..How many of you can think of a time when ALL the auto makers were facing bankruptcy? Real estate is in a state of collapse?  Banks ACTUALLY failing and taking your money with them? Big Oil dictating whether we eat, work or starve? These are all products of "trickle down" economics. And little or no oversight or regulation.  Those of you who were happy with that scenario, there just isnt much to say for.  Youre not gonna like the next 4-8 years. 

[JT]

Are you immune to facts, Pizz?

Yes, Obama is President-elect of the United States.  Yes, he won a large electoral college vote (and fractionally over half of the popular vote).  Yes, he will be President for the next four years... unless Biden has him bumped off.

BUT - and that is a big but - you are foolish if you believe Obama can make a massive difference.  He might well be an inspirational character.  He might well be a talented orator.  But Obama is not a messiah, absent what MSNBC and Keith Olberman have been telling you to believe.

Lloyd is absolutely 100% spot-on in his analysis.  Partisan hacks on either side of the aisle are bad for the United States, and you've devolved to a Democratic partisan hack alienated by GOP idiocy.  You're apparently unaware that the Democrats have played just as major a role in screwing up the country as have the Republicans.  Much of the current credit crunch can be attributed to toxic subprime lending by predatory banks... something which was legislatively encouraged by the Community Reinvestment and Gramm-Leach-Bliley Acts passed under the Carter and Clinton administrations respectively.

You ARE aware of this, aren't you?  Or are you blind to the facts which inculpate the Democrats?

Are you aware that Obama's campaign promises to bring change to Washington - and to remove corruption from the cesspit that is D.C. - are crumbling right before your very eyes as several of Obama's close political confidants, such as Rahm Emanuel, Jesse Jackson Jr. and Valerie Jarratt, are inculpated in Blagojevich-gate?  Is this acceptable?  Or will you overlook it just because it's your man Obama?

Big Oil dictating whether we eat, work or starve? These are all products of "trickle down" economics.

I think you need to resit Economics 101 at your local community college.  It is a centrally-planned economy, such as those espoused by Marx and Engels, which dictate where, when and what you eat, and where and when you work.  Ever heard of the Soviet Union?

Big Oil is being de-fanged as we speak.  With Brent Crude at $45 per barrel and falling, Big Oil will shortly be struggling to meet its overheads.  The Russian economy is in the tank and its population is declining more rapidly than the population of Zimbabwe - it's current population decline is estimated to be 700,000 people per year.  There are towns in middle Russia which have been deserted.  And during all of this, the Kremlin is warmongering with the West by flying its rustbucket WW2 fighter jets over Scandinavia and undertaking naval dickwaving in the GUIK gap and the southern Caribbean.  I envy neither the Russian Federation nor Big Oil at the moment.  You can expect to see the OPEC countries begin to cut production in the hopes of raising income shortly.  The USD is in a bad state, and they want more than $45 of poor currency for one of their barrels of black gold.

[pizzpoor]

Are you immune to facts, Pizz?

Only the "facts" spun by Rush Limbaugh.  THose I am vaccinated against.
And that stuff youre bringing up is STRAIGHT OUT of the Rush library of "facts."  Hes been pissing down folks' back and telling them its raining much too long.
Here are the facts you need to know.  Obama IS your president. (Who bumps him off is mere wishful thinking and is NOT fact)
Obama may or may NOT make a massive difference.... Immaterial. NOTHING is better than what we have now.  The fact the dems now dominate both houses finally will enable them to accomplish what they couldnt get done the last two years.  GOP members who are left will join them or be run slap over. Its their choice.
There is no room or place for those not willing to help and support the long and painful road to recovery we all must travel.  OBAMA is the leader chosen with an ELECTORAL mandate to do the job.  THats all I need to know.  Obama is NOT a messiah, thats RUSH'S term.  Not his nor mine. THere IS NO Messiah. 
You ARE aware of this, aren't you?  Or are you blind to the facts which inculpate the Democrats?
I am aware that these are RUSH'S facts.  And on closer analysis, ALWAYS leave out important aspects which favor the GOP and disfavor the democrats. This tends to render his "facts" suspect. (if not downright dishonest)

 are crumbling right before your very eyes as several of Obama's close political confidants, such as Rahm Emanuel, Jesse Jackson Jr. and Valerie Jarratt, are inculpated in Blagojevich-gate?  Is this acceptable?  Or will you overlook it just because it's your man Obama?

I dont give a damn (as I said) about ANY of these "issues." EVEN if theyre true word for word.... ESPECIALLY if theyre true word for word...Doesnt matter...HE WAS ELECTED TO WORK ON THE ECONOMY! Jesse, the Rev, The Illinois Governor, The pope, Jesus H Christ...Jehovah, Muhammad, Are NOT part of the economic problems we have. When will you understand that is what we elected him to fix? I will keep my eye on the economic ball, and I will hold him accountable, (rightly or wrongly) about the economy. The rest is just window dressing and the usual political theft all are involved in. Such topics should be left to the political conspiracy theorists such as Rush.   I didnt elect Obama to be my spiritual advisor, my morals councelor, or anything else, except leader of the armed forces, (which I hope are home soon and a hell of a lot smaller, and minding our own business) Remember this: Judge him on the ECONOMY, the rest is just entertainment of no real value in this enviornment we find ourselves in.

[Eryn Baugh]

I fear that when the induced stupor of Obamamania wears off that Pizz is headed for one hell of a depression.  When he finds out that HE is rich and going to be taxed to death and since he works for a defense contractor and the first thing they gut is the defense industry when they are in charge he's going to find the promised change.  No money, no job and no prospects in a depressed economy. 

I'll keep my freedom, my guns and my money and you can keep your change!

[pizzpoor]

I fear that when the induced stupor of Obamamania wears off that Pizz is headed for one hell of a depression.

Oh... Its now the OBAMA depression. Before he even takes office.   Yep, that's what Ive been hearing RUsh say lately.  Hello! I think if all but the blindest of you would look around youll see we are already IN a depression.  In many ways worse than the GREAT depression.   BUT Rush and his followers wont mention that.  Im not surprised. Its their way of assigning blame to others for problems THEY created.  There were two simple choices in this last election as I saw it. Vote for more of the same, or vote for change, for better OR worse. Those who voted to continue the same course we have been on for the last 8 years there isnt much to say for.  Those that voted for the GOP last time would sell out the country for outdated, racist, and bankrupt ideas of a generation ago all in the name of fear IMO. And now try to use that same tired fear tactic all over again in the attempt to discredit, and derail any  effort at recovery. And all of this with no answers of their own to offer. Let me remind you that  Reagan is dead. He AINT coming back. Grow a backbone, stand up straight, get in the game, and lets work together to make things better for ALL, not just a few.  Forget about the few idiots in each party, theyre plenty of them to go around.  What the Illinois governor did does NOT reflect the views of the entire Democratic party, anymore than the senator from Alaska reflect the views of the GOP.  LEave that to the Rush Limbaugh institute of conspiracy theorists.  Keep your eye on the ball...
The Democrats were elected to accomplish these three objectives:
1. Progress in ECONOMIC matters. The Democratic way...(We tried the GOP method...Its why we are in the shape we are in now. and why the Democrats were elected by electoral landslide to begin with)
2. Withdrawal from Iraq/Afghanistan and other places we have no business being. Reduce the size and expense of the military while changing its mission to smaller quicker responsive units to reflect the world situation. We dont need any more 4 billion dollar carriers, 3 billion dollar submarines, nor billion dollar airplanes.
3. Reduce or eliminate influence by the religious right in politics, once and for all... by legislation, if necessary, if not achievable by any other means. (this would be a bonus but we all have to be willing to compromise  
Whatever else happens, the Democratic party will be judged on how their progress in THESE objectives.  Anything else is just conversation.

[JT]

I don't even know what Rush Limbaugh's voice sounds like, Pizz.  So nice try - yet again - to stereotype my political beliefs, but I'm afraid that was a swing and a miss.

You really should learn how to debate a political point properly, because puerile non sequiturs like "omg, stop listening to Rush!!1" are going to get you about as far as a French tank on the Nazi front lines.

[pizzpoor]

I don't even know what Rush Limbaugh's voice sounds like, Pizz.  So nice try - yet again - to stereotype my political beliefs, but I'm afraid that was a swing and a miss.

When I see debatable points with other solutions I will be happy to debate...>But frankly JT All Ive seen from you is criticizm with NO alternative solutions...EXCEPT those that come directly and straight from the Rush Limbaugh playbook of fearmongering. And I mean exactly from that playbook...whether on the radio OR online. THAT is where youre getting your views from. No doubt about it... I havent heard or seen any alternative solutions to our real problems from him in either media, and thats why you dont have any. Like I said before, if any of you fearmongering conspiracists  have better solutions to the problems facing us, Id be HAPPY to hear them. If you dont, why not stay out of the way and let somebody else try SOMETHING, even if its wrong.

[JeffB]

At least Republicans are quick on their feet and can duck flying shoes...   

Come to think of it though - Obama did run some basketball with my UNC Tarheels...   

[JT]

And I mean exactly from that playbook...whether on the radio OR online. THAT is where youre getting your views from. No doubt about it...

Bull, fucking and shit.  If you can quote exact sources where comments I have made tally perfectly with comments from Rush, then you may have some credibility.  At the moment, you're simply engaging in the age-old liberal tactic of attacking the messenger rather than the message.  All that indicates is that you aren't in possession of the facts or political comprehension to effectively counter my points - and that doesn't inflate your credibility either.

If you dont, why not stay out of the way and let somebody else try SOMETHING, even if its wrong.

*facepalm*

I despair, I really do.  I don't see you making these "well at least he tried" concessions for President Bush, but you're already formulating excuses for the future President Obama before he's taken office.

This is exactly the sort of bipartisan hypocrisy I was earlier condemning.  It's pathetic.