Darlie Routier - Murdering Mom on Death Row

[iamjumbo]

Do you know if there's any psychological testing performed on her? If she is guilty - which the evidence seems to support - I would expect her to score very high on tests for psychopathy. For a mother to perform such a heinous act on her own children I see only two explanations:

1) She is seriously mentally ill with some kind of psychosis/schizophrenia that has led her to totally lose her grasp on reality

2) She is a psychopath of the worst kind with no really feeling towards any other human being. In the mind of such a person another human beings are just things that could be tossed away if you don't need the anymore or if they prevent in some way of doing another things you want to do. A typical example of this kind of murder is Lowell Lee Andrews who murdered his own parents and sister and is described by Truman Capote in "In cold blood" because he was on Kansas DR at the same time as Dick Hickock and Perry Smith.

Now #1 isn't supported in this case by anything I've read so far, so therefore it must be #2. If she didn't fit this description it would left me very puzzled.

irrelevant.  the ONLY thing that matters is, did she know that murdering the boys was wrong.  there's no doubt whatsoever that she cannot meet the burden of insanity. 
she murdered the kids purely for greed.  it was cold blooded, premeditated murder.  no amount of psychological testing will show that she didn't know it was wrong, and NOTHING else matters

[pizzpoor]

To me, murder is murder. I am not sympathetic to claims of  "I didnt know what I was doing" by either the offender or their hired psychologists.  It would make no difference to me if they actually DIDNT know.  Same goes for retardation claims. I could execute a retarded offender just as easy or easier than a genius.....PROVIDED they were in fact guilty as charged.. ON the other hand,  In the case Jerome Bowden, who was executed in the electric chair in GA for murder(s) many didnt believe he committed... This was one of the catalysts of the "retarded" rulings by the USSC.  Many feel that GA was a bit cold blooded in this case, and I am inclined to agree with them. 

http://soundportraits.org/on-air/execution_tapes/complete_audio.php3

Here is a link for some of you that have never seen it, which includes actual TAPED audio of several executions at the Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Center, that you may find interesting.  There are interviews with the inmate 2 hours before the execution, the actual descriptive execution process as it happens, and some of the warden as he gives instructions to the witnesses before the execution, and then pronouncement after it is complete.  This is as close as many of us will ever get to knowing the how these executions are carried out. 

[iamjumbo]

To me, murder is murder. I am not sympathetic to claims of  "I didnt know what I was doing" by either the offender or their hired psychologists.  It would make no difference to me if they actually DIDNT know.  Same goes for retardation claims. I could execute a retarded offender just as easy or easier than a genius.....PROVIDED they were in fact guilty as charged.. ON the other hand,  In the case Jerome Bowden, who was executed in the electric chair in GA for murder(s) many didnt believe he committed... This was one of the catalysts of the "retarded" rulings by the USSC.  Many feel that GA was a bit cold blooded in this case, and I am inclined to agree with them. 

http://soundportraits.org/on-air/execution_tapes/complete_audio.php3

Here is a link for some of you that have never seen it, which includes actual TAPED audio of several executions at the Georgia Diagnostic and Classification Center, that you may find interesting.  There are interviews with the inmate 2 hours before the execution, the actual descriptive execution process as it happens, and some of the warden as he gives instructions to the witnesses before the execution, and then pronouncement after it is complete.  This is as close as many of us will ever get to knowing the how these executions are carried out. 

well, it hasn't worked that way since 1843 when daniel mcnaughton was having his delusions and shot edward drummond.  since then, britain, and consequently the u.s has had the mcnaughton rules, which determin criminal culpability. 
while everyone has to recognize that a victim is just as dead, whether murdered by a sane or insane person, it also has to be recognized that death, or even imprisonment in a prison, is not a legitimate answer for a person who truly does not know, or understand what he is doing.  the prohibition against executing the truly insane has been around for a long time. 
unfortunately, in a less than lucid moment, scotus came up with the atkins vs virginia decision, and extended the prohibition to those who are fully cognizant of what they're doing, but do not have the intellectual level considered normal.  it was a bad decision

[Jeff1857]

I agree Jim. The Atkins ruling by Ruthie and the Supremes was absolutely ignorant. The scumbags might have been totally competent at trial but spending 23 hrs in a cell every day would make anyone a little off. That doesn't mean they were mental midgets when they did the crime though.

[iamjumbo]

I agree Jim. The Atkins ruling by Ruthie and the Supremes was absolutely ignorant. The scumbags might have been totally competent at trial but spending 23 hrs in a cell every day would make anyone a little off. That doesn't mean they were mental midgets when they did the crime though.

there has actually been a couple of punks try to claim that the years on death row had made them too crazy to execute.  while it's obviously not true, it wouldn't matter anyway.  it doesn't matter how crazy they are when they go for the guerney ride.  they didn't meet the insanity standard at the time of trial.
the problem with atkins is not that it allows this.  it is that it excuses a fool simply because his iq is less than about seventy.  there's no excuse for that.  mcnaughton should be the ONLY determination.

[Michael]

You´re right Jim, the actual status is not important - it was improtant how their mental status was as they commited the crime.

On the other hand these puinks give you a good reason to speed up the appeal process..  Save DR inmates for insanity - execute them quick.  (I´m caring about other souls ;-) .

Best

Michael

[iamjumbo]

You´re right Jim, the actual status is not important - it was improtant how their mental status was as they commited the crime.

On the other hand these puinks give you a good reason to speed up the appeal process..  Save DR inmates for insanity - execute them quick.  (I´m caring about other souls ;-) .

Best

Michael

the sentiment is nice, but unfortunately, you have to thank the antis.  they are the ones who insist on keeping murderers on death row for years before they're executed.
a case can get to the u.s. supreme court in about two years.  it doesn't, but that is only because of the delaying of the appellate attorneys.  this isn't supposed to happen.  i have had a habeas petition denied because it was filed three days late.  these clowns wait until the last minute and then get postponements.
by the time the case gets to scotus, over sixty people have looked at it.  that is more than sufficient to determine factual guilt or innocence, which is the ONLY thing that is relevant.  there is no legitimate reason for there to be any more than three years, max, between sentence and execution

[Granny B]

the sentiment is nice, but unfortunately, you have to thank the antis.  they are the ones who insist on keeping murderers on death row for years before they're executed.
a case can get to the u.s. supreme court in about two years.  it doesn't, but that is only because of the delaying of the appellate attorneys.  this isn't supposed to happen.  i have had a habeas petition denied because it was filed three days late.  these clowns wait until the last minute and then get postponements.
by the time the case gets to scotus, over sixty people have looked at it.  that is more than sufficient to determine factual guilt or innocence, which is the ONLY thing that is relevant.  there is no legitimate reason for there to be any more than three years, max, between sentence and execution

That's right, Jim, it is all a delaying game to the scumappeals scumyers to keep the scumbags alive, kicking and making trouble longer. 

The longer they keep the scumappeals going the longer the scumbags stay alive. 

I did not understand this till last year after Cathy's second stay of execution.  At that time Eryn had talked to the person handling our side of the appeals process.  He explained it to me as it had been explained to him.

Just before her trial where she was found guilty, Texas had passed a law to speed up the appeals process so that the scummurderers could be executed faster.  According to my understanding of it, the expedited appeals made it necessary for them to put all their objections into the forms and get them sumitted quickly and they had 3 chances to do it right before it went to the Supreme Court. It was appealed to all the appropriate state and then district courts, then the Supremes refused to hear her case.  Took over 12 years for it to wind slowly through the courts and finally get the first execution date set.

Then the ScumPoisonous Penguin stepped in with the scum-pseudo-so called "scumexpert" who is not an expert, and threw another monkey wrench into the works to gum it up.

But here's the thing, as long as there is an appeals of any kind in the works, then they cannot execute the murderer.  These scumyers have appeals all filled out and ready to appeal to this court and to that court and to this judge and that judge, if one fails, so they get another one into court, even at the 11th hour so they can put off the execution as long as possible.  As long there is any kind of appeal in the court system, it has to be dealt with, before the person can be executed.  So they have the next appeal ready to go and slap the next appeal on a judge's desk to prevent the execution as soon as the last one is turned down. 

It's all a game to them.  One judge turns it down, they find another judge's desk to slap the next appeals on his desk and hope this one will see merit in the appeal.  They do this clear up till the execution is over with.  It's all a delaying game to keep them alive. 

Never mind how it makes the MVs family feel, or the ups and downs with the emotions in the hopes it will all be over with and you can get on with your own life.  It is ALL ABOUT THE MURDERER.  They are the only one who is taken into consideration.  Never mind that the MVs are victimized by the system with the delays. 

Screw the Mvs  and their feelings!  Who the hell are they and why do they want the murderer executed according to the scumyers

  the scumappeals and  the scumyers!

[TKraus]

Come now. She's not that evil.

[Henrik - Sweden]

Do you know if there's any psychological testing performed on her? If she is guilty - which the evidence seems to support - I would expect her to score very high on tests for psychopathy. For a mother to perform such a heinous act on her own children I see only two explanations:

1) She is seriously mentally ill with some kind of psychosis/schizophrenia that has led her to totally lose her grasp on reality

2) She is a psychopath of the worst kind with no really feeling towards any other human being. In the mind of such a person another human beings are just things that could be tossed away if you don't need the anymore or if they prevent in some way of doing another things you want to do. A typical example of this kind of murder is Lowell Lee Andrews who murdered his own parents and sister and is described by Truman Capote in "In cold blood" because he was on Kansas DR at the same time as Dick Hickock and Perry Smith.

Now #1 isn't supported in this case by anything I've read so far, so therefore it must be #2. If she didn't fit this description it would left me very puzzled.

irrelevant.  the ONLY thing that matters is, did she know that murdering the boys was wrong.  there's no doubt whatsoever that she cannot meet the burden of insanity. 
she murdered the kids purely for greed.  it was cold blooded, premeditated murder.  no amount of psychological testing will show that she didn't know it was wrong, and NOTHING else matters

I meant that it would left me puzzled in the sense that I really cannot see a mentally competent woman without a serious amount of psychopathy in her personality doing this. But real psychopaths can kill even close relatives in totally cold blood, that's nothing new. If she didn't score high on those tests though, and there were other circumstances in the case that spoke against her guilt - then I might begin to think that there are serious doubts about her guilt. But I do not have all the relevant facts in this case and I'm well aware that whatever comes from her and her attorneys can't be trusted as some kind of objective truth.

[Jeff1857]

GM, Scumappeals? Another new word. 

[iamjumbo]

the sentiment is nice, but unfortunately, you have to thank the antis.  they are the ones who insist on keeping murderers on death row for years before they're executed.
a case can get to the u.s. supreme court in about two years.  it doesn't, but that is only because of the delaying of the appellate attorneys.  this isn't supposed to happen.  i have had a habeas petition denied because it was filed three days late.  these clowns wait until the last minute and then get postponements.
by the time the case gets to scotus, over sixty people have looked at it.  that is more than sufficient to determine factual guilt or innocence, which is the ONLY thing that is relevant.  there is no legitimate reason for there to be any more than three years, max, between sentence and execution

That's right, Jim, it is all a delaying game to the scumappeals scumyers to keep the scumbags alive, kicking and making trouble longer. 

The longer they keep the scumappeals going the longer the scumbags stay alive. 

I did not understand this till last year after Cathy's second stay of execution.  At that time Eryn had talked to the person handling our side of the appeals process.  He explained it to me as it had been explained to him.

Just before her trial where she was found guilty, Texas had passed a law to speed up the appeals process so that the scummurderers could be executed faster.  According to my understanding of it, the expedited appeals made it necessary for them to put all their objections into the forms and get them sumitted quickly and they had 3 chances to do it right before it went to the Supreme Court. It was appealed to all the appropriate state and then district courts, then the Supremes refused to hear her case.  Took over 12 years for it to wind slowly through the courts and finally get the first execution date set.

Then the ScumPoisonous Penguin stepped in with the scum-pseudo-so called "scumexpert" who is not an expert, and threw another monkey wrench into the works to gum it up.

But here's the thing, as long as there is an appeals of any kind in the works, then they cannot execute the murderer.  These scumyers have appeals all filled out and ready to appeal to this court and to that court and to this judge and that judge, if one fails, so they get another one into court, even at the 11th hour so they can put off the execution as long as possible.  As long there is any kind of appeal in the court system, it has to be dealt with, before the person can be executed.  So they have the next appeal ready to go and slap the next appeal on a judge's desk to prevent the execution as soon as the last one is turned down. 

It's all a game to them.  One judge turns it down, they find another judge's desk to slap the next appeals on his desk and hope this one will see merit in the appeal.  They do this clear up till the execution is over with.  It's all a delaying game to keep them alive. 

Never mind how it makes the MVs family feel, or the ups and downs with the emotions in the hopes it will all be over with and you can get on with your own life.  It is ALL ABOUT THE MURDERER.  They are the only one who is taken into consideration.  Never mind that the MVs are victimized by the system with the delays. 

Screw the Mvs  and their feelings!  Who the hell are they and why do they want the murderer executed according to the scumyers

  the scumappeals and  the scumyers!

it is ridiculous, but it does end.  hood is a good example.  the imbeciles managed to run the clock out last week, because an ignorant judge who had no authority to give a stay, did so.  he also got set in his place over it.  i'd like to see real sanctions on him, but even for texas, i won't hold my breath.  i don't recall the name offhand, but a few years ago, the ninth circuit got their hand slapped for the same thing.  scotus flatly told them that they'd better not even think about accepting another petition.
people complain about how much the death penalty costs, but the cost is due ONLY to the perversions of the system that have allowed a myriad of meritless appeals to be filed. 
unfortunately, i don't foresee the system ever working properly.  it will be streamlined, but i think the chances of ever getting trash executed within five years of sentence are about zilch

[iamjumbo]

Come now. She's not that evil.

you don't get much more evil than murdering a baby

[iamjumbo]

Do you know if there's any psychological testing performed on her? If she is guilty - which the evidence seems to support - I would expect her to score very high on tests for psychopathy. For a mother to perform such a heinous act on her own children I see only two explanations:

1) She is seriously mentally ill with some kind of psychosis/schizophrenia that has led her to totally lose her grasp on reality

2) She is a psychopath of the worst kind with no really feeling towards any other human being. In the mind of such a person another human beings are just things that could be tossed away if you don't need the anymore or if they prevent in some way of doing another things you want to do. A typical example of this kind of murder is Lowell Lee Andrews who murdered his own parents and sister and is described by Truman Capote in "In cold blood" because he was on Kansas DR at the same time as Dick Hickock and Perry Smith.

Now #1 isn't supported in this case by anything I've read so far, so therefore it must be #2. If she didn't fit this description it would left me very puzzled.

irrelevant.  the ONLY thing that matters is, did she know that murdering the boys was wrong.  there's no doubt whatsoever that she cannot meet the burden of insanity. 
she murdered the kids purely for greed.  it was cold blooded, premeditated murder.  no amount of psychological testing will show that she didn't know it was wrong, and NOTHING else matters

I meant that it would left me puzzled in the sense that I really cannot see a mentally competent woman without a serious amount of psychopathy in her personality doing this. But real psychopaths can kill even close relatives in totally cold blood, that's nothing new. If she didn't score high on those tests though, and there were other circumstances in the case that spoke against her guilt - then I might begin to think that there are serious doubts about her guilt. But I do not have all the relevant facts in this case and I'm well aware that whatever comes from her and her attorneys can't be trusted as some kind of objective truth.

the only thing that there is to know is the simple fact that she was not proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, she was proven guilty beyond ALL doubt.
as i pointed out elsewhere, it doesn't matter what her mental or emotional state was.  the ONLY thing that matters is whether or not she knew murdering the kid was wrong.  she did.  she needs to die.  end of story

[Cynthia]

Do you know if there's any psychological testing performed on her? If she is guilty - which the evidence seems to support - I would expect her to score very high on tests for psychopathy. For a mother to perform such a heinous act on her own children I see only two explanations:

1) She is seriously mentally ill with some kind of psychosis/schizophrenia that has led her to totally lose her grasp on reality

2) She is a psychopath of the worst kind with no really feeling towards any other human being. In the mind of such a person another human beings are just things that could be tossed away if you don't need the anymore or if they prevent in some way of doing another things you want to do. A typical example of this kind of murder is Lowell Lee Andrews who murdered his own parents and sister and is described by Truman Capote in "In cold blood" because he was on Kansas DR at the same time as Dick Hickock and Perry Smith.

Now #1 isn't supported in this case by anything I've read so far, so therefore it must be #2. If she didn't fit this description it would left me very puzzled.

Why can't she just be a selfish arrogant bitch?  I mean, yea, I said I have doubts-or at least think she deserves an oscar-BUT if she is guilty, it could just be good old fashioned selfishness.