This is why LWOP is not good enough!

[Black Star]

Ok  let's talk about some innocents.. I will start a new thread for ya Okee dokee?

stay tuned...   I will title it "The Innocence Issue" 

Not funny, Pam. It is actually a good idea. But that was not my point, but I guess you got that anyway.

[iamjumbo]

Dear Pammee, hate me once again for my modest reply, but:

If a few cases in which an inmate kills another one is sufficient proof to you that CP works: fine by me.
But what do you make of this:
If in a few cases an innocent person is being executed, that's proof to anti's that CP doesn't work.

Both opinions are not entirely right to me.

since it is an irrefutable FACT that NO truly innocent individual has been executed in the u.s. since 1976, it is a moot point. 
since there have been over two hundred exonerations since 1983, 13 from death row, there is conclusive proof that a truly innocent person could not be executed in the u.s. in the future, so it is a moot point

[Black Star]

Dear Pammee, hate me once again for my modest reply, but:

If a few cases in which an inmate kills another one is sufficient proof to you that CP works: fine by me.
But what do you make of this:
If in a few cases an innocent person is being executed, that's proof to anti's that CP doesn't work.

Both opinions are not entirely right to me.

since it is an irrefutable FACT that NO truly innocent individual has been executed in the u.s. since 1976, it is a moot point. 
since there have been over two hundred exonerations since 1983, 13 from death row, there is conclusive proof that a truly innocent person could not be executed in the u.s. in the future, so it is a moot point

So what you're saying is, law expert/student(?):

Because of +/- 1.3% who have 'escaped' the gurney, this proves noone can be exectuted 'by mistake'? Is this what you mean, I'm sorry I'm a non native English speaking European... 

Sorry for not noticing this earlier, since our beauty opened a topic for me. 

[ScoopD (aka: Pam)]

This is your "beauty" again requesting on simple answer....

Can you provide me with court documented proof that an innocent person has ben executed since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976?

I'm still waiting...........    in every friggin thread you are cluttering up with your nonsense..  I'm still waiting on this one simple request...   

[Michael]

Hi Pam! 

He can´t show you the proof - it doesent exiost. The antis claimed that several persons had been innocent (they forgot to say, that most of them have commited other crimes ;-) ) as they´d been executed.  As I remember the last one was this white guy with the big glases (can´t remember his name).  he claimed on the gurney taht he is innocent and the antis put a lot of hope into his case. Then they got a DNA check after his execution and they looked forward to the result of the check - and thy had been so sure, that he wa sinnocent and what happened - he was GUILTY!

So it seems, that the system works perfect.

One point to critize (as I could do this as a foreigner) is the speed of the appeals. GoB wrote this in another topic, the long time for the appeals is unfair to people who are innocent on the death row.

Ah I forgot one point - we can talk about the poverty/ritch thing, because it hurts until today that O.J. had good lawyers.... 

Best

Michael

[Black Star]

This is your "beauty" again requesting on simple answer....

Can you provide me with court documented proof that an innocent person has ben executed since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 1976?

I'm still waiting...........    in every friggin thread you are cluttering up with your nonsense..  I'm still waiting on this one simple request...   

Answer: No I can't.

[kanga]

Dear Black Star,

If you are here for confontation only, go ahead. But I have to say that you have fallen into a very evident, but neatly laid trap. One that you could have avoided.

There will be no "documented Court Evidence" that a innocent person has been executed since the recommencement of executions in 1976.. It was through the Trial Court & subsequent Appeal System that is in place & the decisions off the Governors of the States involved not to grant the convicted their "Clemency Appeal" that lead to their ultimate execution. 

By the same token though, to my mind, that does not mean that mistakes have not been made, or will not be made in the future.

[Black Star]

Dear Black Star,

If you are here for confontation only, go ahead. But I have to say that you have fallen into a very evident, but neatly laid trap. One that you could have avoided.

There will be no "documented Court Evidence" that a innocent person has been executed since the recommencement of executions in 1976.. It was through the Trial Court & subsequent Appeal System that is in place & the decisions off the Governors of the States involved not to grant the convicted their "Clemency Appeal" that lead to their ultimate execution. 

By the same token though, to my mind, that does not mean that mistakes have not been made, or will not be made in the future.

Another who thinks I'm playing some kind of role here. What can I say?

If the (would be) lawyers start flooding me with their so called facts, what do you want me to do? Like I said, I don't use other websites so when I think for myself when it comes to factual arguments on this subject, I dare to admit to defeat. I wonder how they will take this though. Probably a as a sign of lack of intelligence. I don't care.

[Black Star]

Ah I forgot one point - we can talk about the poverty/ritch thing, because it hurts until today that O.J. had good lawyers.... 

No Michael, we won't. For this is pure nonsense (quote Pamee), all what I'm saying is in fact nonsense according to her.

Then I wonder why she doesn't ban me. Actually, now I mention it: can I wave my appeals and have the sentence being carried out right now? At least I won't be tempted to go and have a look on a site where the admins despise me, misunderstand me but not even admit to it etc...

1 against 4 hard core pro's. 1 liberal european against 4 Rednecks. 1 free thinker against 4 copy pasters; What do you expect.

If I use this French sentence, will you ban me then? yes? Ok then, here's a nice one to look up:

"Vas te faire foudre. Ca vous ferra du bien"

NOW you have your reason to 'execute' me. You were looking for one for a few days now, weren't you Pamee. Well, now I gave you a perfect cross, head it in in style. (this is about football, for your understanding! lol)

BlackStar on this board: 

[kanga]

Falling on your sword Black Star! I don't think so. 

[Michael]

Come on BlackStar do you have something like a masochist need? i have the strong feeling ofr that after reading your last post.

Best

Michael

[Granny B]

No Michael, we won't. For this is pure nonsense (quote Pamee), all what I'm saying is in fact nonsense according to her.

Then I wonder why she doesn't ban me. Actually, now I mention it: can I wave my appeals and have the sentence being carried out right now? At least I won't be tempted to go and have a look on a site where the admins despise me, misunderstand me but not even admit to it etc...

1 against 4 hard core pro's. 1 liberal european against 4 Rednecks. 1 free thinker against 4 copy pasters; What do you expect.

If I use this French sentence, will you ban me then? yes? Ok then, here's a nice one to look up:

"Vas te faire foudre. Ca vous ferra du bien"

NOW you have your reason to 'execute' me. You were looking for one for a few days now, weren't you Pamee. Well, now I gave you a perfect cross, head it in in style. (this is about football, for your understanding! lol)

BlackStar on this board: 

And I have to keep wondering how come you want so badlyto be banned?     You bring it up in nearly all your posts. 

Is it to prove to yourself that we really are "4 rednecks" as you so unpolitely called us?  How would you like it if we called you Black Hole instead of Black Star.  Cause to be truthful, you are more like a Black Hole than a Black Star.  Information goes in, no light comes on and no useful information comes back out!  In the words of the French, TOUCHE!   

[iamjumbo]

Dear Pammee, hate me once again for my modest reply, but:

If a few cases in which an inmate kills another one is sufficient proof to you that CP works: fine by me.
But what do you make of this:
If in a few cases an innocent person is being executed, that's proof to anti's that CP doesn't work.

Both opinions are not entirely right to me.

since it is an irrefutable FACT that NO truly innocent individual has been executed in the u.s. since 1976, it is a moot point. 
since there have been over two hundred exonerations since 1983, 13 from death row, there is conclusive proof that a truly innocent person could not be executed in the u.s. in the future, so it is a moot point

So what you're saying is, law expert/student(?):

Because of +/- 1.3% who have 'escaped' the gurney, this proves noone can be exectuted 'by mistake'? Is this what you mean, I'm sorry I'm a non native English speaking European... 

Sorry for not noticing this earlier, since our beauty opened a topic for me. 

yep.  that's what it proves alright.

[iamjumbo]

Dear Black Star,

If you are here for confontation only, go ahead. But I have to say that you have fallen into a very evident, but neatly laid trap. One that you could have avoided.

There will be no "documented Court Evidence" that a innocent person has been executed since the recommencement of executions in 1976.. It was through the Trial Court & subsequent Appeal System that is in place & the decisions off the Governors of the States involved not to grant the convicted their "Clemency Appeal" that lead to their ultimate execution. 

By the same token though, to my mind, that does not mean that mistakes have not been made, or will not be made in the future.

of course mistakes have been made, and will be in the future.  the reality is that those mistakes have NOT resulted in an innocent person being executed, nor will they ever.

[zalo]

of course mistakes have been made, and will be in the future.  the reality is that those mistakes have NOT resulted in an innocent person being executed, nor will they ever.

With all due respect, how can you be so sure that all those executions never even once included an innocent person? I agree that an extremely high percentage of executions were performed on guilty persons. But, really, unless you can look into people's minds, memories, you cannot honestly make the statement you just made. That requires god-like powers.

I am a pro too. But obviously our justice system is not perfect. How can it be? We are only human and we make mistakes. Our justice system is GOOD, yes, but not perfect. And if something is not perfect, mistakes can and will be made. Maybe it hasn't happened YET. Even that, I doubt. A mistake will be made and, I believe, has been made, once or twice.

Just my opinion.

Having said that, I now take a step back. I believe it has happened once or twice that someone was executed for a crime he didn't commit. But I also believe that that person was guilty of other crimes. Usually, someone who commits 1st degree murder already has a history of felonies. So even if he was innocent of the crime that got him a death sentence, he's still a criminal. So, yes, maybe he got a punishment that was a little bit worse than he "deserved". I can't say I feel too bad about that. It seems to happen much more often that criminals get punishments that are a lot LIGHTER than they "deserve". So if a criminal gets the DP for a crime he didn't commit, I can't say I feel bad. He was a criminal already. He just got a punishment that was maybe a "little bit too harsh".

-zalo