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Author Topic: This is why the DP works...  (Read 4167 times)

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Offline vanessalitfilm

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 09:16:23 AM »
I think people are very confused and do not read whole posts on here. I do not agree with the death penalty for the mere reason that I think it would give this murderer the easy way out. I think sufficient punishment would be for him to suffer the rest of his life in prison. I think that going crazy in prison for the rest of forever would be better punishment than just being killed and then you don't have to deal with any consequences. Obviously I think this guy is scum and is horrible and did a horrible monstrous thing, that is not arguable in my book. I'm arguing AGAINST the death penalty here, I'm not arguing that this guy doesn't deserve punishment.

Offline AnneTheBelgian

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 09:58:38 AM »
If I can post a comment here, I would like to write this :



Dear vanessalitfilm,


First, welcome to this site/forum !

You have your opinions and your ideas and I think that we are agree to respect them !

We (supporters of the death penalty) can't accept that a murderer continues to "exist" and to breathe when women and men (family and friends) cry every day because they lost a loved one.

For us, the capital punishment is the right road to follow and the best solution.





















Anne
"DEATH PENALTY OPPONENTS WHO TWIST THE TRUTH TO PROTECT KILLERS ARE ALSO TORTURING VICTIMS FAMILIES" (PETER BRONSON, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER,FEBRUARY 3, 2003)

PRO DEATH PENALTY AND PROUD OF IT !!!

JE MAINTIENDRAI (MOTTO OF WILLIAM I THE SILENT, PRINCE OF ORANGE, 1533 - 1584, MOTTO OF THE NETHERLANDS)

DEO JUVANTE (MOTTO OF THE PRINCIPALITY OF MONACO)

PROUD TO BE BELGIAN !!! I LOVE MY KINGDOM !!!

Offline ALgirl

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 10:04:16 AM »
I see no reason that he should live if he blatenly tortured and murdered a baby.  What use is that?  The death penalty is a consequence of the murderer's behavior.  Leaving them in jail for the rest of their lives still leaves room for more murders and other crimes.  And don't fool yourself....it happens. 

Offline ScoopD (aka: Pam)

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 10:04:22 AM »
I think people are very confused and do not read whole posts on here. I do not agree with the death penalty for the mere reason that I think it would give this murderer the easy way out. I think sufficient punishment would be for him to suffer the rest of his life in prison. I think that going crazy in prison for the rest of forever would be better punishment than just being killed and then you don't have to deal with any consequences. Obviously I think this guy is scum and is horrible and did a horrible monstrous thing, that is not arguable in my book. I'm arguing AGAINST the death penalty here, I'm not arguing that this guy doesn't deserve punishment.


It has nothing to do with reading whole posts!  It has EVERYTHING to do with having different views.   You are on a pro death penalty forum and we are quite set in our ways and our beliefs and no matter what you can say regarding this you are not going to change our views and beliefs.   You believe a better punishment would be for him to sit in prison, WE BELIEVE a better punishment would be a death sentence. So please stop telling us we are not reading your whole posts. We read it, WE JUST DISAGREE WITH YOU!    :-*


If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine

My reason for supporting capital punishment: My cousin 16 yr. old Amanda Greenwell was murdered in March of 2004 at the hands of serial killer Jeremy Bryan Jones.

Offline ScoopD (aka: Pam)

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2011, 10:06:36 AM »
and by the way, I am not very confused!    I am quite educated on this topic and very firm in my belief!!!

Execute the Guilty, Honor the Victims, Educate in Uninformed!   That is my belief and nothing you say or do will change my mind.


If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine

My reason for supporting capital punishment: My cousin 16 yr. old Amanda Greenwell was murdered in March of 2004 at the hands of serial killer Jeremy Bryan Jones.

Offline AnneTheBelgian

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 10:09:15 AM »
Posted by: ScoopD (aka: Pam)

Posted on: Today at 10:06:36 AM

and by the way, I am not very confused!    I am quite educated on this topic and very firm in my belief!!!

Execute the Guilty, Honor the Victims, Educate in Uninformed!   That is my belief and nothing you say or do will change my mind.









Dear Administrator, Dear Pam,



YOU ROCK !!! 100% agree with you !!!

 :-* :-*















Anne
"DEATH PENALTY OPPONENTS WHO TWIST THE TRUTH TO PROTECT KILLERS ARE ALSO TORTURING VICTIMS FAMILIES" (PETER BRONSON, CINCINNATI ENQUIRER,FEBRUARY 3, 2003)

PRO DEATH PENALTY AND PROUD OF IT !!!

JE MAINTIENDRAI (MOTTO OF WILLIAM I THE SILENT, PRINCE OF ORANGE, 1533 - 1584, MOTTO OF THE NETHERLANDS)

DEO JUVANTE (MOTTO OF THE PRINCIPALITY OF MONACO)

PROUD TO BE BELGIAN !!! I LOVE MY KINGDOM !!!

Offline Elric of Melnibone

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 10:23:01 AM »
When I read about precious children being harmed by wackos and abusers, I see red.  I want to tear the tops of their heads off and $%#& down the hole. 
Children are our future and should be treated accordingly.
You can lead an ass to water and if you fight long and hard, you can make it drink.  But at the end of the day, after all the fighting, it is still an ass.

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Offline JTiscool

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 10:29:17 AM »
I think people are very confused and do not read whole posts on here. I do not agree with the death penalty for the mere reason that I think it would give this murderer the easy way out. I think sufficient punishment would be for him to suffer the rest of his life in prison. I think that going crazy in prison for the rest of forever would be better punishment than just being killed and then you don't have to deal with any consequences. Obviously I think this guy is scum and is horrible and did a horrible monstrous thing, that is not arguable in my book. I'm arguing AGAINST the death penalty here, I'm not arguing that this guy doesn't deserve punishment.


How would he suffer if he spent the rest of his life in prison? He won't suffer out of guilt because he feels no remorse. He obviously wants to live so clearly the death penalty would be the worse punishment and life in prison would be exactly what he wants. Why give him what he wants when the poor baby didn't even get a chance to live their life?
My reason for supporting the death penalty? A murderer has less of a right to live than his victim and already presents a danger while incarcerated for life. They have nothing to lose when the most they can get is Life in prison without parole.

Offline ScoopD (aka: Pam)

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 10:36:16 AM »
He won't suffer at all because some bleeding heart euroweenie will write to him and put money in his commissary account and tell him what a wonderful man he is and how he is their hero, blah blah blah....   



If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine

My reason for supporting capital punishment: My cousin 16 yr. old Amanda Greenwell was murdered in March of 2004 at the hands of serial killer Jeremy Bryan Jones.

Offline JTiscool

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 10:40:10 AM »
One of the reasons outside of Lawyers and perhaps family, he should have no contact with anyone else. Be it mail, visits, phone calls and he should have to work for his food and medical care.
My reason for supporting the death penalty? A murderer has less of a right to live than his victim and already presents a danger while incarcerated for life. They have nothing to lose when the most they can get is Life in prison without parole.

Offline vanessalitfilm

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 10:55:19 AM »
I think people are very confused and do not read whole posts on here. I do not agree with the death penalty for the mere reason that I think it would give this murderer the easy way out. I think sufficient punishment would be for him to suffer the rest of his life in prison. I think that going crazy in prison for the rest of forever would be better punishment than just being killed and then you don't have to deal with any consequences. Obviously I think this guy is scum and is horrible and did a horrible monstrous thing, that is not arguable in my book. I'm arguing AGAINST the death penalty here, I'm not arguing that this guy doesn't deserve punishment.


It has nothing to do with reading whole posts!  It has EVERYTHING to do with having different views.   You are on a pro death penalty forum and we are quite set in our ways and our beliefs and no matter what you can say regarding this you are not going to change our views and beliefs.   You believe a better punishment would be for him to sit in prison, WE BELIEVE a better punishment would be a death sentence. So please stop telling us we are not reading your whole posts. We read it, WE JUST DISAGREE WITH YOU!    :-*



Woah, I was not trying to offend anywhere here, I have just done a ton of research on this topic and wanted to put in my opinion that I do not think the death penalty should be legal.
As for when I said you are not reading the entire posts, I am talking about the people who replied to me saying that this guy couldn't have accidentally dropped the baby in boiling water, because that wasn't the point of my post, the point of my post was was to say my opinion of the death penalty. I am not here to bash others beliefs because I see the pro death penalty side quite clearly, and I understand where everyone is coming from, I am simply stating what I think would be sufficient punishment. And I agree with the people who have said that they just don't agree with me, but it seems extremely emotional when I am just trying to state my opinion, not bash the opinion of others. I am quite aware that this is a pro death penalty site. What made me post to this forum was the fact that there were great arguments on here and people were making totally valid points that I can partially and almost completely agree with. Anyway, what I am trying to say is I'm sorry if I offended anyone, that wasn't the idea I had, I just thought people would be open to hearing other ideas.

Offline ScoopD (aka: Pam)

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 10:59:41 AM »
We are open to others opinions, but you blatantly called us confused and stated we are not reading your posts. You did not address it to any one specific person or persons so it was addressed to all and therefore I responded accordingly. 

Our forum has a quote feature, I used it in my response to you earlier, might I suggest in the future you use it as well so people know who you are speaking to directly. 

 :-*

apology accepted.


If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine

My reason for supporting capital punishment: My cousin 16 yr. old Amanda Greenwell was murdered in March of 2004 at the hands of serial killer Jeremy Bryan Jones.

Offline JTiscool

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 11:00:06 AM »
We are. But there is no reason he should spend the rest of his life in prison if that's what he wants. It wouldn't be a worse punishment because he'd still get to see his family, he'd still get visitors etc. Besides he has proven enough that prison is nothing to him.
My reason for supporting the death penalty? A murderer has less of a right to live than his victim and already presents a danger while incarcerated for life. They have nothing to lose when the most they can get is Life in prison without parole.

Offline Elric of Melnibone

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 11:03:55 AM »
Vanessa, please understand that we have forum members here that have had precious children taken forever from them.  Also, please understand that i do not have children and would have given much to have one.  And rthat when I and others read posts about what evil people do to children, we get hot and we dont care. 
This is not a site for singing birds and cute fuzzy things.  This is a site where evil has entered lives and forever destroyed them...
You can lead an ass to water and if you fight long and hard, you can make it drink.  But at the end of the day, after all the fighting, it is still an ass.

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Offline Grinning Grim Reaper

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Re: This is why the DP works...
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 06:08:34 AM »
More on the killer Michael St. Clair

Widow Seeks Justice In N.M. 20 Years Later

Timothy Keeling, 22, was working as a paramedic in Denver and trying to sell his pickup in 1991 when two men saw the “for sale” sign and asked if they could take it for a test drive.

Keeling ended up dead hours later just outside Clayton, shot in the back and the neck. His truck was found on fire a few days later near Louisville, Ky., and Keeling’s death was quickly linked to a deadly cross-country crime spree by two jail escapees from Oklahoma who went on to shoot a police officer and kill another man in Kentucky.

In the 20 years since she became a young widow, Lisa Keeling (now Lisa Hill) has moved away from Colorado, remarried and spent a lot of time in courtrooms in Kentucky – testifying and offering moral support to the family of the other man killed by the Oklahoma escapees later in their crime spree. The two were tried and retried, and after multiple appeals, one of them received a life sentence and one, just this month, was sentenced to death.

But she hasn’t spent a day in a New Mexico court, because no one was ever prosecuted in connection with her husband’s death in New Mexico.

Hill told me on the phone from Texas, where she now lives, that during the latest Kentucky court proceeding – a weeklong resentencing after a successful appeal – it occurred to her that she had spent a lot of time and emotional energy in court but had never had the opportunity to help bring justice on behalf of her own family.

“There is a healing that comes with that,” she said. A healing that she hasn’t had and feels is her due.

“The light finally came on,” she said, and she asked, “Why didn’t New Mexico ever do anything?”

She asked me to find out why New Mexico never brought Dennis Reese and Michael St. Clair to trial for the murder of her husband.

After weeks of inquiries that involved tracking down and interviewing a dozen current and retired police officers and court personnel, I have to say it’s not clear.

A lot of people remember the case, including the first police officers who responded to the lonely crime scene and the lead criminal investigator who eventually filed murder charges against the two.

But Donald Gallegos, the district attorney for the three-county region that includes Keeling’s murder scene, had never heard of the case when I called him and relayed Lisa Hill’s request that he resurrect it and bring it to trial.

After digging through old papers, his staff in Clayton finally located a case file in a dusty storage locker: Charges dismissed. A handwritten note by a deputy district attorney alluded to prison sentences pending against the two in other states as the reason for New Mexico bowing out.

Closed and forgotten. That is exactly what Lisa Hill feared she would find when she contacted the newspaper – and the governor -looking for answers.

Reese and St. Clair are bona fide bad guys. Reese escaped as he was awaiting trial for strangling and beating a woman to death. St. Clair was serving time for killing his uncle and the hit man he hired to kill his uncle when he escaped.

Reese has two life sentences to serve in Oklahoma and one in Kentucky. St. Clair has four life sentences to serve in Oklahoma, along with a life sentence in Kentucky and the death sentence he just received there.

You might think New Mexico’s would be a fairly straightforward case against them. Reese gave authorities a detailed statement about the escape, the kidnappings and murders. He said he and St. Clair forced Keeling into the truck cab with them and drove toward Dallas, stopping on the highway between Springer and Clayton so St. Clair and Keeling could relieve themselves.

Reese told the New Mexico State Police investigator who filed charges that he remained in the truck and heard a gunshot, then heard Keeling yell, “Oh, God” before a second shot was fired.

Toby Dolan was one of the New Mexico State Police officers who responded to the crime scene after state Transportation Department workers found Keeling’s body by the side of the road. He retired last year, and he’s got a keen memory.

Although the medical investigator’s report surmised Keeling might have been killed elsewhere and his body dumped on the side of U.S. 56, Dolan says that wasn’t the case.

“Based on the evidence at the scene, I believe Tim was shot near the right-of-way fence,” Dolan said. “He then crawled toward the highway, probably in an attempt to be seen by a passing car.”

He said it appeared Keeling crawled more than 20 feet. “There was blood on both of his sides, indicating that he flipped from side to side as he was crawling. There was a blood trail through the grass where he crawled,” he said. “There is no doubt in my mind that Tim was shot right there, just as Reese said in his statement.”

Reese also related that when St. Clair returned to the truck, he joked there must have been something wrong with his gun because it took two shots to kill Keeling. Later, Reese said St. Clair told him shooting people was like shooting dogs – “Once you killed one, the rest was easy.”

St. Clair denies he was ever even in New Mexico, and he stood up in the courtroom in Kentucky last month, looked at Hill and told her, “Lady, I didn’t kill your husband.”

Hill would like to be able to sit in the courtroom and watch the state of New Mexico challenge that boast.

Gallegos said that might still happen.

“I’m very willing to do that if the evidence is there, if the file is there, if everything we need is there,” Gallegos said.

Gallegos agreed to review the case and weigh what Hill wants against what is best for the taxpayers.

“Given the fact that they’ve already been sentenced to multiple sentences, including the death penalty, the first criticism is going to be, ‘Why are you wasting resources on an academic pursuit?’” Gallegos said. He added, “Obviously, there’s nothing academic when a person’s life is at issue and the family is still suffering.”

No one has to tell that to Lisa Hill.

“I can’t really heal and I can’t really go on until I understand why wasn’t something done,” Hill told me. “I still love Tim. Ultimately, I think everybody wants for there to be some sort of finality on behalf of your loved ones.”

It’s what Tim’s mother, Alla Keeling, calls “long overdue.”

The young Keelings met in Bible college and were doing youth ministry in Denver when Tim Keeling was killed. According to his kidnapper Reese, whom Hill met with the last time she was in Kentucky, Keeling wasn’t much concerned about himself throughout his ordeal. He spent his last hours praying for his captors.

He seems like the kind of man New Mexico could pay some respect to by bringing his killers to justice.

Charges against the two were dismissed without prejudice, meaning they can be brought again. And there is, after all, no statute of limitations on murder.

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2011/...ars-later.html

Killers freed kill again...and again...and again!
Vengence is mine saith the Lord...who are we to question the instruments used to carry it out?