I wish we had a 'British' dish to be honest.  Apart from fish and chips, and maybe sausage and mash, all our common does not originate in the UK.

My favourite food is Thai.  Green Curry and Coconut rice rocks!

Quote from: RangerRik on January 17, 2011, 07:54:40 PM

I think the Brits can include 'Bubble and Squeak' as a dish - not sure which part of UK originates from.....goes well with anything.

 

What the heck is "bubble and squeak"?

Bubble and Squeak is a reason not to finish your christmas dinner!  Awesome!  Mix up the stuff remaining and fry it up. 

This is not a difficult one for me, Halprin escaped prison with 6 other violent offenders, the 7 of them robbed the Sporting Goods store, Halprin carried a weapon during this robbery, Halprin carried stolen merchandise out of the store.  Halprin played a key role in the robbery which resulted in the death of Officer Hawkins.   Halprin knew the consequences of his actions yet he still made the choice to participate in the crime. All 7 escaped convicts deserved to be punished equally and they were.  For me, there is nothing to ponder........

But when it becomes OK to sentence people to the DP just because they where with someone who decided to kill, things get a little scary for me.

Agreed, the guy's obviously a scum bag, but is he as bad a someone who has premeditated a murder and pulled the trigger?  I don't think so personally.

Thanks Johnny  I'm not sure that the law of parties is arcane, after all, it must have been introduced for a purpose since most laws like this have some form of precipitate action which the legislators acknowledge and respond to. There are some convicted under this law that I truly believe are worthy of the DP, Im just not sure that Halprin is one of them...

I'm not sure that anyone should face the DP if they weren't the one who actually committed the act of murder though.

This isn't helping:

Randy Halprin, 33: The Collin County native was serving 30 years for beating a baby. He met the child's mother in an Arlington homeless shelter in 1996 and moved in with the family. A month later, Halprin repeatedly beat the infant because, he later said, the baby would not stop crying. The child suffered broken arms, legs and a fractured skull.

http://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/news/view/7265

But still, as much as DP for child abusers sounds just fine to me, its still not murder..... aaaaahhh I'm soooo confused about this and it bugs me!

I think most of us agree that the law of parties is arcane.
There is no way this guy should be on death row for this 'crime'.  He should, however, be beaten on a daily basis by fellow lifers for hurting that baby the way he did.
Scum bag yes.  DP scum bag, no.

Quote from: JonnyTwoToes on January 17, 2011, 05:42:56 AM

A few points:

1) I actually don't think everyone is redeemable.  Any crime should be punished and the severity of these crimes means a harsher punishment is necessary.  I don't actually agree with rehabilitation of those worthy of the DP either.  A crime that serious means you leave your human rights at the door to the prison in my opinion, but I won't go as far as to agree with the DP as it is an act that is irreversible and inhumane.
Yes, the common argument against that stance is "Well what they did to their victims wasn't humane!", but two wrongs don't make it right. 

2) I disagree with you on the Wanda Jean Allen scenario.  Certain societies to indeed breed criminality.  Simply compare crime per capita in certain parts of the  US - there is a vast difference.  That isn't to say ALL crime would be solved by looking at certain structures of society, but a fair percentage of those crimes where people find themselves on DP would.

3) And finally, you certainly can stop a chain of events from happening where a high percentage of these crimes are concerned.  For instance, we are lucky to have very strict gun laws over here as opposed to your bill of rights.  A gun crime in the UK is rare, but when it happens, it is front page news.  It is not the norm.
Your acceptance of certain 'rights' leads to possibilities that seem like at a nightmare for those looking in on how your system works. 

Unless you start looking at why so many people are committing these horrendous crimes, you're taxes will continue to rise for the sake of stocking up on sodium thiopental, pancuronium bromide andpotassium chloride. 

1. The death penalty is not irreversible but it is humane. It's as humane as putting a pet out of it's misery. The only difference is one deserves humane treatment and the other doesn't. Also prison is irreversible because once you take 5 years of someone's life they can't get it back.

2. Everyone has control of their own actions. Society doesn't breed murderers. As I have just told you, people can be in bad society's but if society breeds murderers then everyone who grew up in a broken society would kill.

3. Fair enough..

4. Just bring back the firing squad and it will be cheap and effective. It's cheap and it gets the job done.

About this being 'humane', Henrik put's it far more eloquently than I ever could with his point of dehumanising people for the benefit of then punishing them in the way we see fit.

The central point here is to realise that those opposed to the DP aren't automatically criminal lovers (well, the sane ones aren't anyway!).
Those such as Henrik and myself (I hope I can speak for you Henrik) have exactly the same venom and anger towards these criminals as those who are in favour or the DP.  As mentioned earlier, the only difference here is that fact that I will stop short of supporting the DP and you won't.

That is a difference of opinion.

Anyway, I watched a program last night talking about "What is Reality?" and the whole area of quantum physics and string theory.  It appears none of this is real and we're living alternate lives in many other universes.  So in some other universe, we may all be having the switch thrown on us.

(Advice - don't ever watch a program about quantum physics before you go to bed!)

I know you'll disagree with me on this, but I think I have given facts when needed.  I guess it's the opinion of those 'facts' that is the issue.

No, it's not the opinion of "those facts" that is at issue, it's the complete and utter lack thereof...  As I have said, the NEXT time you support any of your "opinions" with fact(s) will be the FIRST time.  And I'm still suspect of your participation in this forum...  So be it....

You are of course entitled to your opinion Jeff - not sure why someone would want to waste time simply 'trolling' though, especially at my age but hey, it takes all sorts I guess.

See what I mean Jonny?   

Excellent post Henrik...  Doesn't change my personal position, but your points are duly noted.   

Yes, very good post.  <----- used as their is no thumbs up smiley.

Alright...  Please accept my apology Jonny..  Perhaps I was out of line calling you an idiot..

It just occurs to me that your participation here is suspect..  I myself have infiltrated the likes of the PTO website just for the sake of "poking those carbon based beings with a stick".  I have NO problem whatsoever with an anti participating here..  I would welcome the learned, lucid, rational debate (I give you Henrik as an example - sorry Henrik if you do not wish to be used in that manner  ). 

You don't have to agree with my opinion, but if you're inclined to refute it, please do so with factual information and data to support it as opposed to circular logic, and nonsense.  To imply that our taxes will rise "in order to finance the materials for lethal injection" is just silly...

Hence the smiley face at the end of that sentence Jeff.  It's was tongue in cheek.  If this site had a tongue in cheek smiley, I'd have used it.
I'm actually really interested in crime and punishment - have been for many years since my [then] girlfriend studied criminal profiling (she's now a doctor).

I do agree with you that any opinion is often better when it's supported with facts.  I know you'll disagree with me on this, but I think I have given facts when needed.  I guess it's the opinion of those 'facts' that is the issue.    <------ Still no tongue in cheek smiley!

but I won't go as far as to agree with the DP as it is an act that is irreversible and inhumane.

Yep, it's irreversible..  Nope, it is not at all inhumane...  It is just.

but two wrongs don't make it right.

Great use of cliche' Jonny...     Can't your sparkling intellect do better?  And FYI, executing these dirt balls is ONE wrong, and ONE RIGHT - not two wrongs... 

you're taxes will continue to rise for the sake of stocking up on sodium thiopental, pancuronium bromide andpotassium chloride.  

Umm, I think you meant "your" as opposed to the contraction for "you are"..  At any rate, YOU'RE an idiot...

Seriously Jeff, any need for that abuse mate?

JT asked a question, and I'm answering it in my opinion.
I disagree with your opinion but I'm not going to start calling you an idiot because I disagree with you.

A few points:

1) I actually don't think everyone is redeemable.  Any crime should be punished and the severity of these crimes means a harsher punishment is necessary.  I don't actually agree with rehabilitation of those worthy of the DP either.  A crime that serious means you leave your human rights at the door to the prison in my opinion, but I won't go as far as to agree with the DP as it is an act that is irreversible and inhumane.
Yes, the common argument against that stance is "Well what they did to their victims wasn't humane!", but two wrongs don't make it right. 

2) I disagree with you on the Wanda Jean Allen scenario.  Certain societies to indeed breed criminality.  Simply compare crime per capita in certain parts of the  US - there is a vast difference.  That isn't to say ALL crime would be solved by looking at certain structures of society, but a fair percentage of those crimes where people find themselves on DP would.

3) And finally, you certainly can stop a chain of events from happening where a high percentage of these crimes are concerned.  For instance, we are lucky to have very strict gun laws over here as opposed to your bill of rights.  A gun crime in the UK is rare, but when it happens, it is front page news.  It is not the norm.
Your acceptance of certain 'rights' leads to possibilities that seem like at a nightmare for those looking in on how your system works. 

Unless you start looking at why so many people are committing these horrendous crimes, you're taxes will continue to rise for the sake of stocking up on sodium thiopental, pancuronium bromide andpotassium chloride. 

I figured with the recent increase in antis showing up on these boards, this would be an interesting topic.

Let's say some guy commits say 5 murders and he is sentence to life in prison but manages to escape then kills your wife/husband and children and you were/are opposed to the death penalty. Would you change your views on the death penalty seeing as how life in prison failed? What if your state/country didn't use life in prison without parole and their maximum sentence is like 25 years in prison (I'm looking at you Canada <.<) and there was this murderer who has had a violent criminal history dating back to when he was 14, would your views change?

If not then why not? If so then why?

This is in no way intended to mock antis, I just thought it would be an interesting topic. If a mod feels that this topic is disrespectful/inappropriate then please delete it.

As I've said many times before, going down the road of mixing personal emotion with a states/countries judicial system is a bad road to go down.
Personally, I would hunt the guy/girl down and issue our my own punishment, but that's not to say I expect to state to act the way I would.

I think we are all agreed the current alternative to the DP is flawed (to say the least) and the punishment certainly doesn't fit the crime - which is why I propose a working system where the inmates work 24-7 to pay the debt back to society in some way, rather than laying in their backs 23 hours a day listening to the radio at the tax payers expense.

So although it's hard to do, we have to separate personal angst and emotion with a firm and unwavering judicial system that's structure is not influenced by personal circumstances.

I watched a program last night (UK time) about women on death row.  One chap on there commentating was saying all the right things.  He was talking about Wanda Jean Allen and said something along the lines of "Instead of spending tax payers money housing and looking after people like Wanda Jean Allen whilst they await their punishment, we should be spending that money in societies like the one she grew up in to make sure we stop making people like Wanda Jean Allen".

That's really my stance on this.  With the DP, you are not stopping the chain of events that makes these criminals - it's like putting a crappy plaster (band aid) on an ever growing wound.  You need to focus on what makes a murderer and stop it (as best you can) at an early stage.

A Comment from the article on Humanely Executing.....

If due process is followed, then it is know HOW the murder was committed. It may not be humane, and does sound like revenge, but I feel a killer should die the same way their victim did. A shooter gets shot, a knife wielder gets stabbed. Brutal? Yes, but it may possibly add value as a deterrent, rather than a nice sleepy euthanasia method.
Craig Elder, Chesterfield


I think this guy needs an invite to our little board...I like how he thinks!

What about sexually motivated murders?  Who you gonna get to rape one of these criminals before you shoot them?

"I would suggest that when a person has a thought of doing anything serious against the law, that before they did, that they should go to a quiet place and think about it seriously."
William Bonin - California - 1996

Quote from: skflorida on January 13, 2011, 08:27:57 AM

Yes, an individuals background does effect their path in life, it may go a long way to explain their behaviour, it may even be a partial reason, but it should not be an excuse. A dreadful childhood can possibly explain who this person has become but to use it as a reason to allow a murderer to escape capital punishment is ridiculous.

Lets face it, the Death Penalty can be interpreted in two ways.  Execution or life without parole.  The degree of punishment is different, since it can be quick (less punishment for the criminal) or it can be prolonged so the criminal suffers years of punishment.  So we are not talking about escaping the death penalty, just the time.

In my opinion the inmate that gets executed is actually getting a break. I know that if it were me I would go for a quick exit in lieu of being locked up until I die.

 I am all for making the criminal suffer the most for their deeds but I do not think the tax payer should have to foot the bill cost for these years so I favor out right execution and say to hell with my desire for the most punishment.

My post on this subject should in no leave one thinking that I have compassion for the inmate.  My compassion is for those parents that raise their child correctly, but unfortunately the child did them and the public wrong. 

The emotional suffering of the parents should by all means be considered.  An investigation could determine if they were dedicated parents or if they were neglectful and in a way contributed to their child's crime and a judge or jury could decide accordingly

Some good points here.

To go on from that, I think it's important not to look at those on death row as simply one group of people.  The majority of Texas death row do seem to fit a certain demographic, however there are those in the minority that maybe need to be looked at on a case by case basis.
Most of those on the Texas death row killed whilst committing robbery (which makes it the capital offense it then becomes) or killed because of drugs.  Although that does sound rather simplistic, that really is the case here.

So we are left with robbery and drugs being the primary offense - it seems to me that the murder/killing is secondary to these criminals.

If that is true, then we have a pretty solid base to suggest the social and economic background of an individual may well lead them into criminal acts of robbery and drugs.  Thus onto a capital offense where a murder is involved.