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Messages - JoeGuru

on: May 25, 2013, 02:21:26 AM 31 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Elmer Leon Carroll - FL - 5/28/13

I wonder why HE doesn't have a wifeaux!

on: April 25, 2013, 04:34:06 PM 32 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Richard Aaron Cobb - TX - April 25, 2013

He's been executed.  Moving the thread now.

on: April 25, 2013, 02:25:13 PM 33 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Richard Aaron Cobb - TX - April 25, 2013

COBB: ...Looking back you know I never really had a life and whenever I thought I did, that got taken way from me.

I wish I'd been there during this interview.  I'd be tempted to say: "let's maybe get something straight here.  Nothing "got taken *way" from you, Mr. Cobb.  All of this, including the cold reality of waking up in a bad mood in your cell, is your fault and yours alone."

Maybe that's why I don't get to interview death row inmates.

TINSLEY (the reporter): Along the way did you have any kids?

 COBB: No. I made it halfway through high school.

 TINSLEY: Oh, you were close.

 COBB: Yeah.

Er... well, maybe that's why I'm not a "real" reporter.

on: April 19, 2013, 07:10:42 PM 34 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Elmer Leon Carroll - FL - 5/28/13

Elmer Leon Carroll execution: Florida man to die by lethal injection for Christine McGowan murder
Carroll later claimed it would be unconstitutional to execute him because he has mental retardation.

The appeals court should reject it saying: "you're not retarded, you're just an idiot."

on: April 16, 2013, 04:43:48 PM 35 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Ronnie Paul Threadgill - TX - 4/16/13

It's done.  6:40 PM CDST.

on: April 10, 2013, 04:39:30 PM 36 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Larry Mann - FL - 04/10/2013

STARKE - Larry Eugene Mann has been executed for the 1980 murder of 10-year-old Elisa Nelson of Palm Harbor.

“Thank God it’s over,” said Katy DeCarolis, Elisa’s cousin.

The U.S. Supreme Court denied Mann’s latest – and final appeal this evening. His lawyers appealed to the high court on Monday, arguing that his death sentence should be overturned because the jury that recommended it wasn’t unanimous. They also argue Mann’s constitutional rights were violated because Gov. Rick Scott used a secret and standardless process before signing Mann’s death warrant.

Minutes before the 59-year-old former oil well driller from Dunedin was scheduled to be executed, roughly a dozen people gathered at an anti-death penalty vigil at the Cathedral of St. Jude the Apostle in St. Petersburg.

People sang hymns, listening to readings and praying – praying that the killer’s life would be spared.

In 1981, Mann was convicted of killing Elisa, who was last seen riding her bike to Palm Harbor Elementary School on Nov. 4, 1980. She had a note in her pocket explaining she was late because of a dentist appointment.

Mann kidnapped her, took her to an orange grove, cut her throat and then beat her head with a pole with a concrete base. He then went home and tried to kill himself, telling the responding police officers he had “done something stupid.”

On Nov. 8, Mann’s wife was getting his glasses out of his pickup and found the note Elisa’s mother had written. It had blood stains on it.

Last week, the state Supreme Court unanimously rejected the argument that Mann shouldn’t be executed because the jury that recommended the death sentence wasn’t unanimous.

His death sentence was overturned once because the trial court made a legal error. He was resentenced to death, and the Supreme Court then affirmed that sentence.

Former Gov. Bob Graham signed Mann’s first death warrant in 1986. Mann has appealed in state and federal court since then.

Elisa’s murder wasn’t Mann’s first brush with the law. He had molested a 7-year-old girl some years before Elisa’s death, prosecutors have said. And, at the time of Elisa’s murder, he was on parole in a 1973 rape in Mississippi, where he told his victim if she didn’t comply with his sexual demands, he’d “get what he wanted” from an 18-month-old baby in the next room, a prosecutor said.

At the prayer service at the Cathedral of St. Jude, St. Petersburg Bishop Robert Lynch asked people at the prayer service to take a moment and pray for the Nelson family. Then he spoke out against the death penalty.

“We take as articles of faith that even one who has fully violated the Fifth Commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill,’ should have their life taken by anyone other than the author of all life, the lord God,” he said.

“After over 200 years of the exercise of the death penalty in this nation that we love, there is still no valid evidence that it reduces crime, that murders diminish and that the people live in a greater security.”

“That same heart and mind which abhors the horror of abortion should logically abhor the state deciding who it is who will live and who will die,” the bishop told the group, which had grown to 21 by the end of the half-hour prayer vigil.

Of the more than 400 inmates on Florida’s death row, 25 were convicted in Pinellas and 25 in Hillsborough County. More than a dozen of the inmates on death row have been there longer than Mann.

I agree it's not a deterrent.  It sure is insurance though.

on: April 10, 2013, 02:08:54 PM 37 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Steven Smith - OH - 5/1/13

“Steve has a history of accidental, unintended consequences when he gets drunk,” he said. “Autumn’s injuries were caused by the rape. There are no wounds that are strongly corroborative of an intent to kill.”

Look at it this way: no one will have to worry about any more "unintended consequences" in his life!

on: April 04, 2013, 04:49:47 AM 38 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

Joe, is there any more news out than what is posted here about the results of all the DNA testing???

No.  Neither side has released all the details.  The Attorney General seems pretty convinced that there's nothing even remotely exculpatory.  We won't know everything until both sides file what they're going to file.  If you go back and read "John/J.Bennett/John.B/J.B./etc. Skeptical Juror's" needlepoint, however, you see that much of what's been talked about really chips away at the conspiracy theories.

Again, this is a case of stepping back and looking at everything in context.  A missing jacket and random DNA with nothing more than a conspiracy theory doesn't seem like the smoking gun he needs to save him from the final journey gurney.  But with prolific "reporter" supporters like Brandi Grissom and the proven-dishonest and defrocked David Protess (, I'm sure they'll push the conspiracy theories to the bitter end.

on: April 03, 2013, 02:49:40 PM 39 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

One more note regarding "the windbreaker" ( the big question is: what do they expect it to show?

First, there is what appears to be blood on the sleeve or not.  If it is blood, whose is it?  If it is Twila Busby's, that proves the windbreaker was nearby.  If it's somebody else's, it should be someplace other than on the windbreaker, right (like on the carpet too)?  So let's assume that they're not going to find anybody else's blood in the vicinity of where the windbreaker was (which they're not).  OK, let's assume it's Uncle Bob's (Donnell).  OK.  So what?  Where's *ANY* evidence that Uncle Bob came over, took his windbreaker off, beat and stabbed the family then ran off conveniently leaving his jacket at the scene?  I know the conspiracy theory--is that all they have?

Next, the DNA spot on the carpet from an unknown contributor.  OK.  So?  Where's *ANY* evidence that it came from some crazed killer?  Again, I know the conspiracy theory, where's the beef?

It surely doesn't seem like any of this trumps the behavior of a violent ex-con (which Skinner was before the murders) wearing the blood of the victims, whose own blood was splashed around all over the place (including the murder weapons); who fled practically unscathed from this horrendous scene, hid at his ex-girlfriend's house and deliberately tried not to involve the police.  Or am I being too closed minded?

on: April 03, 2013, 02:25:48 PM 40 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

The solace is that no matter how long it takes until he is finally no longer a threat to society, he spends it all by himself in an itty-bitty metal box with others making his life decisions. 

Stepping back and looking at it from a 50,000 foot view, a conspiracy theory over a missing jacket and a random spot of unknown, unconnected DNA found on a carpet wouldn't create reasonable doubt (unless you had a jury made of of wifeaux, Mamma Stalkin, Brandi Grissom, David Protess and their clones); much less the clear and convincing evidence needed to sway a judge.

So test away!  Conspiracy theories do not a legitimate defense make.  Facts, like those that just continue to pile up, do.

on: April 02, 2013, 07:03:10 AM 41 General Death Penalty / U.S. Death Penalty Discussion / Re: Alright listen up. Unofficial guide to the arguments Antis make.


Many of the folks here on this forum know I had a friend who was executed a few years back. I knew him and his fiancee for several years before the police arrested him for a particularly gruesome murder (while high on cocaine he went to a woman's apartment under the guise of borrowing sugar then tied her up, raped her and shot her in the head with a shotgun).  The murder went unsolved for several years until they finally matched a print.  They arrested him early in the morning at his apartment in front of his fiancee.

Nobody knew.  Nobody believed it.  The guy I knew was not (what some called) a "poster boy" for the death penalty.  He'd been a devoted, caring, thoughtful fiance of a friend.  I never saw him drink more than a beer in an evening and he was strikingly extreme in his opposition to drugs.  I would have bet the farm they had the wrong guy until he confessed and was sentenced to death.  We wrote back and forth a number of times and I was fairly depressed when he was executed.

The whole situation caused me to re-examine my views on the death penalty.  I mean, the guy I knew was really, really changed.  He wrote me and asked if I would handle his website--and try to help get his sentence commuted to life.  I thought about it for a long time.  I thought about how I'd react when some day, in about 60 years, he'd call me up to tell me he was out of prison and "let's go have a beer" and "can I stay at your place until I get back on my feet?"  I wrote him back and told him I respected his position and resolve but I was finding out that I really couldn't disagree with the decision of the court!  There was no scenario where I could envision ever wanting to see him free again--or even risk it happening.

So, until you get to the point where you spend a lot of time thinking about: "could he do it again" and "would I ever want to see this guy on the street again" you never really get to the core of the question.  Yes the death penalty is horrible.  No I don't feel good about it and I don't dance about when someone is executed.  But it does one thing: it absolutely, positively, prevents someone who has proven they can commit a heinous act from ever committing a heinous act again--no matter how changed we may think they are.  It absolutely mitigates any and all risks.

Critics point out that there's always "life without parole" as a better alternative.  My response: there's no such thing as life without parole.  Times change.  Politics change.  Life without parole only exists until some politician convinces folks that keeping someone locked up for the rest of their life is cruel and unusual.

I respect people who respect life.  I respect folks who don't believe in an eye-for-an-eye; I don't believe in that either.  My motivation for supporting the death penalty is not "revenge" or "punishment."  It is fear--pure, simple fear.  It's hard enough to locate and arrest many of these guys, in the first place, and my desire for protection from somone's "second chance" is absolute.  So until someone comes up with an alternate, guaranteed form of absolute protection, I'll put the death penalty into the category of "the best there is".  I'll continue to hate it.  I'll continue to wonder why our civilized, evolving society can't fix this.  I'll continue to be open-minded to alternatives.  But I'll accept it until something better comes along.

Think about it.

on: April 01, 2013, 12:29:58 PM 42 General Death Penalty / Debra Jean Milke / Re: Debra Jean Milke

Miriam, the fact that Saldate's integrity was questionable does not mean he was lying in this case.  You don't have any more proof that the guy lied than one of us has proof that he didn't.  It is, by definition, a technicality.  If this is all the proof that existed in evidence, then the fact that the guy was impeachable means (to me) that the burden of "beyond reasonable doubt" was not met.

As I said previously: I lay the blame squarely on Saldate.  He failed to follow good investigative procedures and practices.  Because of his incompetence there is either (1) a chance that a guilty murderer will walk free or (2) an innocent person spent a fair portion of her life behind bars.  Neither of those is good--and only one person knows if she's truly guilty.

on: April 01, 2013, 06:31:48 AM 43 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

True, Henrik, and these twisty little details are a powerful tool for dishonest cons and their supporters to use.  The truth is usually much less complicated.  Here are Skinner's in a nutshell:

"Severe allergy to codeine."  Nope, this is simply a claim by Skinner.  It's never been affirmed by any physician and, as a matter of fact, was called "B.S." by a doctor at Skinner's first trial who testified that Skinner had no such history of any such allergy.

"Was comatose from this severe allergy."  Nope.  If you look at his ups-and-downs the night of the murders it's pretty clear his comatose condition ebbed and flowed with convenience.

"Didn't have enough strength in his hand to strangle Twila." Nope.  This opinion was given by an occupational therapist at Skinner's trial and never put forth by a doctor.

"Key witness recanted her testimony."  Nope, Skinner's ex girlfriend simply changed her story from "he threatened to kill me if I called police" to "he told me not to call police."  She was found to be not credible, anyway, by a court.

"Twila Busby was raped by her dead uncle."  Nope, the most recent DNA evidence proves she wasn't.

"The dead uncle was a violent man who stuck knives in people and stuff."  Yet there's not *one* assaultive offense on record (he did serve time for auto theft in Oklahoma).  For a crazed knife-wielding psychopath, he sure managed to get away with some heinous stuff without so much as a police report or an arrest for doing it.  Skinner, by contrast, had a criminal history for violence and assaults.

"The dead uncle's jacket, now mysteriously missing, was found at the scene proving he did it."  Nope.  Twila's mom testified the missing jacket was Twila's at trial. 

Bottom line: there is not a single claim that, on it's own, points to anything other than Skinner's guilt.

on: March 26, 2013, 06:03:21 PM 44 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Kimberly McCarthy - Execution Date Set January 29, 2013 new date April 3, 2013 and again 6/26/13

Here's a link to the racial quota "gets to kill" bill:

I expect this to go nowhere.  Very quickly.

   83R8888 JRR-F
     By: Johnson    H.B. No. 2614
     relating to prohibiting seeking or imposing the death penalty on
     the basis of a person's race.
            SECTION 1.  Title 1, Code of Criminal Procedure, is amended
     by adding Chapter 53 to read as follows:
            Art. 53.01.  RACIAL DISCRIMINATION PROHIBITED. No person
     shall be subject to or given a sentence of death or executed under
     any judgment that was sought or obtained on the basis of race.
     The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the
     evidence that race was a significant factor in the decision to seek
     or impose the sentence of death in the county at the time the death
     sentence was sought or imposed.
            (b)  The state may offer evidence in rebuttal of the
     defendant's claims or evidence, including statistical evidence.
     The court may consider evidence of the impact on the defendant's
     trial of any program the purpose of which is to eliminate race as a
     factor in seeking or imposing a sentence of death.
            (c)  Evidence to establish a finding that race was a
     significant factor in the decision to seek or impose the sentence of
     death in the county at the time the death sentence was sought or
     imposed may include:
                  (1)  statistical evidence derived from the county where
     the defendant was sentenced to death, including evidence that death
     sentences were sought or imposed more frequently as punishment for
     capital offenses against persons of one race than as punishment for
     capital offenses against persons of another race; or
                  (2)  other evidence specific to the defendant's case
     showing that the race of the defendant was a significant factor in
     the decision to seek or impose the sentence of death, including
     evidence showing that race was a significant factor in the decision
     to exercise peremptory challenges during jury selection.
            (d)  The evidence under Subsection (c)(2) may include sworn
     testimony of an attorney, prosecutor, law enforcement officer,
     judicial officer, juror, or other person involved in the criminal
     justice system. Testimony by a juror under this subsection must
     comply with Rule 606(b), Texas Rules of Evidence.
            (e)  A motion filed under this article must state with
     particularity how the evidence supports a claim that race was a
     significant factor in the decision to seek or impose the sentence of
     death in the county at the time the death sentence was sought or
     imposed. The claim must be raised by the defendant at the pretrial
     conference or hearing under Article 28.01 and may be raised by the
     defendant in any postconviction proceeding. The court shall set a
     hearing on the claim and may prescribe a time before the hearing for
     each party to present a summary of the evidence the party intends to
            (f)  If the court finds that race was a significant factor in
     a decision to seek or impose the sentence of death at the time the
     death sentence was sought or imposed, the court shall order that a
     death sentence not be sought, or that the death sentence imposed by
     the judgment be vacated and the defendant resentenced to life
     imprisonment without the possibility of parole.
            (g)  Filing a motion under this article does not limit or
     restrict the defendant's eligibility for any other postconviction
     procedure authorized by this code, including another action under
     this chapter.  The provisions of Article 28.01 prohibiting further
     adjudication of certain matters not raised at a pretrial hearing do
     not apply to matters related to a defendant's motion under this
            SECTION 2.  (a)  Chapter 53, Code of Criminal Procedure, as
     added by this Act, applies to a defendant alleged to have committed
     a capital offense regardless of whether the alleged offense was
     committed before, on, or after the effective date of this Act.
            (b)  Notwithstanding Article 53.02(e), Code of Criminal
     Procedure, as added by this Act, prescribing the proceedings at
     which a claim under Article 53.02 may be raised, a person sentenced
     to death before the effective date of this Act who is not otherwise
     eligible to file a motion under this chapter in a postconviction
     proceeding may file a separate motion under Article 53.02, Code of
     Criminal Procedure, as added by this Act, but not after the first
     anniversary of the effective date of this Act.
            SECTION 3.   This Act takes effect September 1, 2013.

on: March 18, 2013, 05:44:52 PM 45 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

If you Google "Hank Skinner" you end up with his website, my website ( and a Wikipedia page as the top hits.  About twice a year, Sandrine (wifeaux) comes along, removes the facts from Wikipedia, and replaces it with her propaganda/gossip.  Shortly thereafter it gets reverted (fixed) by the anti's who watch the page!

You know you're fighting a losing battle when your own side edits your propaganda out!  Personally, I think there are a bunch of honest anti folks who used to have questions about Hank's guilt but have read the facts in context and think they better find a different wagon to which to hitch their horses.  Even John/J.Bennett/John.B/J.B./etc. Skeptical Juror has gone silent on Skinner.

Not good news for Hank.
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