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Messages - JoeGuru

on: April 03, 2013, 02:49:40 PM 16 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

One more note regarding "the windbreaker" ( the big question is: what do they expect it to show?

First, there is what appears to be blood on the sleeve or not.  If it is blood, whose is it?  If it is Twila Busby's, that proves the windbreaker was nearby.  If it's somebody else's, it should be someplace other than on the windbreaker, right (like on the carpet too)?  So let's assume that they're not going to find anybody else's blood in the vicinity of where the windbreaker was (which they're not).  OK, let's assume it's Uncle Bob's (Donnell).  OK.  So what?  Where's *ANY* evidence that Uncle Bob came over, took his windbreaker off, beat and stabbed the family then ran off conveniently leaving his jacket at the scene?  I know the conspiracy theory--is that all they have?

Next, the DNA spot on the carpet from an unknown contributor.  OK.  So?  Where's *ANY* evidence that it came from some crazed killer?  Again, I know the conspiracy theory, where's the beef?

It surely doesn't seem like any of this trumps the behavior of a violent ex-con (which Skinner was before the murders) wearing the blood of the victims, whose own blood was splashed around all over the place (including the murder weapons); who fled practically unscathed from this horrendous scene, hid at his ex-girlfriend's house and deliberately tried not to involve the police.  Or am I being too closed minded?

on: April 03, 2013, 02:25:48 PM 17 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

The solace is that no matter how long it takes until he is finally no longer a threat to society, he spends it all by himself in an itty-bitty metal box with others making his life decisions. 

Stepping back and looking at it from a 50,000 foot view, a conspiracy theory over a missing jacket and a random spot of unknown, unconnected DNA found on a carpet wouldn't create reasonable doubt (unless you had a jury made of of wifeaux, Mamma Stalkin, Brandi Grissom, David Protess and their clones); much less the clear and convincing evidence needed to sway a judge.

So test away!  Conspiracy theories do not a legitimate defense make.  Facts, like those that just continue to pile up, do.

on: April 02, 2013, 07:03:10 AM 18 General Death Penalty / U.S. Death Penalty Discussion / Re: Alright listen up. Unofficial guide to the arguments Antis make.


Many of the folks here on this forum know I had a friend who was executed a few years back. I knew him and his fiancee for several years before the police arrested him for a particularly gruesome murder (while high on cocaine he went to a woman's apartment under the guise of borrowing sugar then tied her up, raped her and shot her in the head with a shotgun).  The murder went unsolved for several years until they finally matched a print.  They arrested him early in the morning at his apartment in front of his fiancee.

Nobody knew.  Nobody believed it.  The guy I knew was not (what some called) a "poster boy" for the death penalty.  He'd been a devoted, caring, thoughtful fiance of a friend.  I never saw him drink more than a beer in an evening and he was strikingly extreme in his opposition to drugs.  I would have bet the farm they had the wrong guy until he confessed and was sentenced to death.  We wrote back and forth a number of times and I was fairly depressed when he was executed.

The whole situation caused me to re-examine my views on the death penalty.  I mean, the guy I knew was really, really changed.  He wrote me and asked if I would handle his website--and try to help get his sentence commuted to life.  I thought about it for a long time.  I thought about how I'd react when some day, in about 60 years, he'd call me up to tell me he was out of prison and "let's go have a beer" and "can I stay at your place until I get back on my feet?"  I wrote him back and told him I respected his position and resolve but I was finding out that I really couldn't disagree with the decision of the court!  There was no scenario where I could envision ever wanting to see him free again--or even risk it happening.

So, until you get to the point where you spend a lot of time thinking about: "could he do it again" and "would I ever want to see this guy on the street again" you never really get to the core of the question.  Yes the death penalty is horrible.  No I don't feel good about it and I don't dance about when someone is executed.  But it does one thing: it absolutely, positively, prevents someone who has proven they can commit a heinous act from ever committing a heinous act again--no matter how changed we may think they are.  It absolutely mitigates any and all risks.

Critics point out that there's always "life without parole" as a better alternative.  My response: there's no such thing as life without parole.  Times change.  Politics change.  Life without parole only exists until some politician convinces folks that keeping someone locked up for the rest of their life is cruel and unusual.

I respect people who respect life.  I respect folks who don't believe in an eye-for-an-eye; I don't believe in that either.  My motivation for supporting the death penalty is not "revenge" or "punishment."  It is fear--pure, simple fear.  It's hard enough to locate and arrest many of these guys, in the first place, and my desire for protection from somone's "second chance" is absolute.  So until someone comes up with an alternate, guaranteed form of absolute protection, I'll put the death penalty into the category of "the best there is".  I'll continue to hate it.  I'll continue to wonder why our civilized, evolving society can't fix this.  I'll continue to be open-minded to alternatives.  But I'll accept it until something better comes along.

Think about it.

on: April 01, 2013, 12:29:58 PM 19 General Death Penalty / Debra Jean Milke / Re: Debra Jean Milke

Miriam, the fact that Saldate's integrity was questionable does not mean he was lying in this case.  You don't have any more proof that the guy lied than one of us has proof that he didn't.  It is, by definition, a technicality.  If this is all the proof that existed in evidence, then the fact that the guy was impeachable means (to me) that the burden of "beyond reasonable doubt" was not met.

As I said previously: I lay the blame squarely on Saldate.  He failed to follow good investigative procedures and practices.  Because of his incompetence there is either (1) a chance that a guilty murderer will walk free or (2) an innocent person spent a fair portion of her life behind bars.  Neither of those is good--and only one person knows if she's truly guilty.

on: April 01, 2013, 06:31:48 AM 20 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

True, Henrik, and these twisty little details are a powerful tool for dishonest cons and their supporters to use.  The truth is usually much less complicated.  Here are Skinner's in a nutshell:

"Severe allergy to codeine."  Nope, this is simply a claim by Skinner.  It's never been affirmed by any physician and, as a matter of fact, was called "B.S." by a doctor at Skinner's first trial who testified that Skinner had no such history of any such allergy.

"Was comatose from this severe allergy."  Nope.  If you look at his ups-and-downs the night of the murders it's pretty clear his comatose condition ebbed and flowed with convenience.

"Didn't have enough strength in his hand to strangle Twila." Nope.  This opinion was given by an occupational therapist at Skinner's trial and never put forth by a doctor.

"Key witness recanted her testimony."  Nope, Skinner's ex girlfriend simply changed her story from "he threatened to kill me if I called police" to "he told me not to call police."  She was found to be not credible, anyway, by a court.

"Twila Busby was raped by her dead uncle."  Nope, the most recent DNA evidence proves she wasn't.

"The dead uncle was a violent man who stuck knives in people and stuff."  Yet there's not *one* assaultive offense on record (he did serve time for auto theft in Oklahoma).  For a crazed knife-wielding psychopath, he sure managed to get away with some heinous stuff without so much as a police report or an arrest for doing it.  Skinner, by contrast, had a criminal history for violence and assaults.

"The dead uncle's jacket, now mysteriously missing, was found at the scene proving he did it."  Nope.  Twila's mom testified the missing jacket was Twila's at trial. 

Bottom line: there is not a single claim that, on it's own, points to anything other than Skinner's guilt.

on: March 18, 2013, 05:44:52 PM 21 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

If you Google "Hank Skinner" you end up with his website, my website ( and a Wikipedia page as the top hits.  About twice a year, Sandrine (wifeaux) comes along, removes the facts from Wikipedia, and replaces it with her propaganda/gossip.  Shortly thereafter it gets reverted (fixed) by the anti's who watch the page!

You know you're fighting a losing battle when your own side edits your propaganda out!  Personally, I think there are a bunch of honest anti folks who used to have questions about Hank's guilt but have read the facts in context and think they better find a different wagon to which to hitch their horses.  Even John/J.Bennett/John.B/J.B./etc. Skeptical Juror has gone silent on Skinner.

Not good news for Hank.

on: March 15, 2013, 05:58:30 AM 22 General Death Penalty / Darlie Routier / Re: Retesting of DNA Granted in Routier Case

Great article:



The continuing antics by supporters of Darlie Routier leave more then a lot to be desired, especially when confusion of facts tumble down to blatant lies. The focus on the case has somewhat shifted of late, to the ridiculous and impossible claims by the Routier clan.

The focus now lies not on Routier herself, but more on the propaganda spread by her supporters, which does little more than highlights the clear and convincing evidence of her guilt. For the past 16 years Routier and her supporters have spewed propaganda relating to the physical evidence against this murdering mother.

One of the greatest spiels is that Routier was ’convicted on circumstantial evidence’. One of their favourite lines is ‘The prosecution’s case against Darlie Routier, presented in court in 1997, was based on circumstantial evidence. ‘

Circumstantial evidence is any other evidence where there is not an eye witness. Most cases are based on circumstantial evidence, and always have been. It is nothing new, or unusual, or sinister, as suggested by the Routier clan.

Circumstantial evidence is not just pulled from anywhere, it is not unsubstantiated evidence. Circumstantial evidence is evidence which may allow a judge or jury to deduce a certain fact from other facts which can be proven.

It is the burden of the prosecutors to show, through a set of circumstances that link, that their theory of what took place is the only logical explanation and that the circumstances can be explained by no other theory.

In some cases there are small amounts of circumstantial evidence that can not be explained easily, or do not fit together to form a pattern, or link to a lead to the perpetrator.

In Routier’s case all of the circumstantial evidence pointed to Darlie Routier, and linked together to tell the story of how a mother killed her two young sons, Devon and Damon.

Conversely, in circumstantial evidence cases, it is the job of the defence to show that the same circumstances could be explained by an alternative theory. In order to avoid a conviction, all a defence attorney has to do is put enough doubt into one juror’s mind that the prosecution’s explanation of the circumstances is flawed.

However, this did not happen in the Routier case. The defence had nothing of evidential value to put forward, because there was none. Although the defence tried to put forward the theory that an intruder had committed the murders, they had no evidence of an intruder, not one tiny piece of evidence even pointing to an intruder.

Darlie Routier helped convict herself further when she took the stand. She had written to various people from prison , telling them that she knew who the alleged ‘intruder’ was. She even named some people. Her letters were nothing more than barefaced lies, and she was caught out at trial in the lies she had written, to family members and supporters.

Routier stood in court and actually asked if it ‘was legal’ to intercept her prison post. The resounding laughter from the court reduced Routier to tears, together with the realisation that she had been caught out in her ploy to deter people from the truth of her guilt.

The prosecution proved Routier’s guilt using circumstantial evidence. That is very important, because it means there was enough evidence, that linked together to tell a story, evidence other than an eye witness, that linked Routier to the murders.

And so, although people may be sceptical when they hear ‘circumstantial evidence’ sprouted aloud by supporters, all it really means is that there was enough evidence against Routier to prove her guilt.

Sometimes people get lucky and there is not enough circumstantial evidence, or it can not be linked. In the Routier case, there was a mountain of circumstantial evidence, including physical evidence that all linked to prove her guilt.

And so Routier remains one of the unlucky ones, and remains what and where she deserves to be. A murdering mother on death row…

on: March 15, 2013, 05:44:52 AM 23 General Death Penalty / Debra Jean Milke / Re: Debra Jean Milke

I attribute this to investigative incompetence.  When you have a sole-witness detective who fails to correctly document an interview, and destroys notes he claims he took, eventually something like this is bound to happen.  Add to this the discovery of reprimands, etc., in his personnel record and you get to a point where it's difficult for a court not to overturn a conviction.

The moral is: document, document, document.  Imagine the difference if there had just been a videotape of the confession played in court--or another witness saying "yeah, that's what she said."

on: March 10, 2013, 06:55:48 AM 24 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

The second round of DNA testing has apparently been completed and the results placed into evidence.  It's important to keep in mind that there is not one piece of evidence which exonerates Skinner--never has been.  There was, however, plenty of DNA which further linked Skinner to the crime: his blood on a knife used to murder at least one of the victims, his blood all over the room where the kids were murdered, etc.  (from the first round).  The DNA testing also put to bed this nonsensical theory about Twila being raped.

The only thing that have is the stuff they don't have like "the jacket" that allows them to say "if only we had this jacket we could prove Skinner didn't commit the crime" nonsense.

So they're back to where they started: innuendo and gross distortion of the facts.

It's just that, this time, there's less for them to work with--and maybe a few more inconvenient facts for them to deal with.

on: February 25, 2013, 06:30:45 PM 25 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

Update: "Something tells me" that there are going to be some more DNA results released maybe as early as the first week in March.  "Something tells me" that Hank and Wifeaux really aren't going to be pleased.

on: February 17, 2013, 02:55:31 AM 26 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Kimberly McCarthy - Execution Date Set January 29, 2013 new date April 3, 2013 and again 6/26/13

Craig Watkins came into office pledging to review convictions of those who were wrongfully imprisoned for crimes they did not commit--a truly noble goal; almost a higher purpose.  This had never before been a focus in Dallas County and I'm glad he did it.

However, now that he's focused on the wrongfully convicted (who nobody wants behind bars--or if you do, there's something really wrong with you, right?) and he made a rightfully-deserved name for himself, Craig's decided to go look for other ways to make a name for himself.  He's decided to focus on politicizing those who got what they deserved for artificial reasons.

Us: "but she viciously butchered a woman, cut her finger off so she could steal a wedding ring, stole cars, cash, etc., and ran off to her crack house to buy drugs with it--these facts are not in dispute."

Craig: "yes, true, but were there enough blacks on the jury?"

My experience after having been the foreman of a jury in Dallas County is that it's probably a good thing there were not more black people on this jury.  If there had been, McCarthy might have been sentenced to death twice!  Drugs, and the things that go with it, are destroying the Southern sector.  A whole bunch of people who live around it are getting very very tired of it.

on: February 04, 2013, 09:19:23 PM 27 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

A little bird told me that there may be some new developments in Hank's case really really soon!

on: February 02, 2013, 06:14:21 AM 28 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

Just got the following comment on a Youtube video where Skinner accuses his ex-wife of the murders:

Yeah, that ex-wife is my mother and there is no possible way she could have committed the murder. She had an air tight alibi for one and she and Twila were good friends for two. In addition, Skinner was the one who abused my mother during their volatile relationship and he wants to find a new fall guy. The poor uncle is now dead and can't defend himself, so he has to have someone else to try to put the blame off on.

I'm always amazed at the real people whose lives are impacted/destroyed by these beasts even years after they should have been worm food.  Here's to Skinner's lucky number being 2013!

on: February 01, 2013, 11:26:06 AM 29 General Death Penalty / Executed Offenders (Graveyard) / Re: Kimberly McCarthy - Execution Date Set January 29, 2013 new date April 3, 2013 and again 6/26/13

The Dallas County DA, Craig Watkins, announced that he was authoring legislation similar to North Carolina's which would allow inmates to appeal their convictions on the basis of race.  I suspect this is why he said he wasn't opposing McCarthy's last minute jab at an appeal.

on: January 29, 2013, 09:51:10 AM 30 General Death Penalty / Stays of Execution / Re: Henry Watkins "Hank" Skinner - TX - 11/09/2011

Again, you have to take all of the evidence in it's totality: the crime scene, his blood, his DNA, his behavior, his history, his statements at the time of his arrest, his statements since the crime, etc.  When you add all that up and look at it from a 50,000 foot view, there's no way there's "reasonable doubt."  He's finally gotten smart about talking out his a** since the crime.  The only way you can conclude Hank is innocent is to ignore everything for which there's an explanation--and focus on only those things which Hank (and his victims) could explain.  Hank is a con.  He's dishonest to the core (looks like he's always been that way) and doesn't have anything to lose by lying.
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