Is Ohio Keeping Another Innocent Man on Death Row?

Started by Yorki3, February 01, 2012, 09:46:43 AM

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loulou.

you seem to think you know alot about american justice system for an english person something odd with you  :o

Angelstorms OL'Man

Yorki  I want  to see where this is proven. I want  to see where the state admits it Convicted the wrong person.

Also yorki do you know how to tell when a criminal  is lieing out his  out there azz???  Because I do.
This was designed to hurt....Its a SEAL Candace unless you have been there yo will never understand...

JeffB


Timothy Cole was exonerated by Texas in 2009 after being sentenced to a 25 year term. He died whilst incarcerated. Now yes its not a DP case, but it's a case none the less than was still required the same prosecution teams to test their evidence against the 'beyond all reasonable doubt' maxim. That is no different to a DP case trial. The only difference with a DP trial comes at the sentencing phase - which ignores the evidence and looks purely at the extenuating and mitigation circumstances surrounding the alleged criminals character.

But also, how many states are readily going to admit there ruling and legal system has sent an innocent man to his death? Especially the states who love executing people, i.,e. Texas. Also the lack of money and funding that prisoners on death row have is well documented - if they struggle to find adequate defence during there trial and appeals then how will they afford the resources to take on the state after death?

Independents have taken out their own reports and returned decisions of innocence...or at the very least serious questions which would fail the 'beyond reasonable doubt test'. If there is a doubt then the DP shouldn't be pursued - In my opinion (I stress opinion here) I do not believe it is right to take any chances with a humans life. Independent cases include Larry Griffin: where the University of Michigan Law School ran a report and returned 100% innocence verdict.


What are you yapping about now Yorky?  Don't you have a witness statement to make up - err, I mean - draft?  ::)

"SO SUCK IT YOU "BLUE COOLER" DOPE!"  -  Sylar24

ICE75

Yorki,

First of all, Jim asked you to show ONE case where an innocent person was executed.  You didn't, but opted instead to throw out a red herring to deflect that you had no proof and to keep your claim alive and breathing, ie, the Cole life in prison case.  Nice try, but..FAIL!

Secondly, Troy Davis was guilty as hell.  There was a reason why the defense manuevered in the fashion that they did and did not want a complete review of all the evidence and that was because there was evidence produced at the original trial that placed Davis less than two miles from the murder scene a couple of hours before the execution of McPhail where he produced and used a small caliber handgun that guess what?  It was the same caliber of the weapon that killed McPhail...not to mention the numerous witnesses who 'recanted' years later.  Guess what?  They all lived in the same neighborhood.

Please come up with some better arguments if you're expecting to sway any of the folks here because they were innocent until PROVEN guilty and sorry, but not ALL of them are "victims" just because you and the rest of the anti's don't like the Death Penalty.

Oh yeah...and support for the DP IS NOT falling in the US, it is growing.  Please provide me with proof that it is or cease and desist with pushing that personal opinion as factual information.

Thank you...
ICE75

"The Declaration of Independence only guarantees the American People the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself!"   Benjamin Franklin

JeffB

Ice - Anti's don't get their "anti card" until they can demonstrate the ability to deflect or divert from questions.  That's what makes Yorky so special...  It's all part of her charm...   ;)
"SO SUCK IT YOU "BLUE COOLER" DOPE!"  -  Sylar24

ScoopD (aka: Pam)

ya know, I am feeling kind of left out by Yorki, for some reason she never responds to my posts..................     ???    --sniffin under my arms, do I smell?   
<br /><br />If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace. -Thomas Paine<br /><br />My reason for supporting capital punishment: My cousin 16 yr. old Amanda Greenwell was murdered in March of 2004 at the hands of serial killer Jeremy Bryan Jones.

Angelstorms OL'Man

Only thing I smell is perfume. And Yorki evading direct lines of questions.  Sounds more and more like a defense lawyer every time I read.
This was designed to hurt....Its a SEAL Candace unless you have been there yo will never understand...

Elric of Melnibone

Chanell #5 Pammee???
You can lead an ass to water and if you fight long and hard, you can make it drink.  But at the end of the day, after all the fighting, it is still an ass.

Banned from PTO 3 times so far for life.

time2prtee

Yorkie, you accused me of cherry picking, and twisting your words..well these last few posts of yours are showing prime examples of that. Solicitor it is... I do not like debating with people who do not answer direct questions, with on-point answers backed up by facts. I also note there is yet no comment on the news articles on Rodrigo, where he ADMITS HIS GUILT on 2 murders. This was that innocent guy you were talking about in your intro....so welcome to my ignore button!



Not worth my time or energy.

Question was, who has been exonerated, that has been EXECUTED, (meaning SENTENCED TO DEATH AND THE SENTENCE WAS CARRIED OUT.) since 1977, and you go on about a guy who was sentenced to 25 years, who died in prison ....Not sorta, Not kinda, Not like, Not almost....EXECUTED
"Indeed, the decision that capital punishment may be the appropriate sanction in extreme cases is an expression of the community's belief that certain crimes are themselves so grievous an affront to humanity that the only adequate response may be the penalty of death."  SCOTUS

Peace and Comfort to all Victims and Families

time2prtee

LOL, this was one of my first posts here...Deja vu?


And to the Antis who do not want to debate intelligently, want to say all of these scum are innocent, or fail to answer direct questions with facts that can be backed up...if you don't like it...leave....here is the website for you  www.prisontalk.org, or google anti death penalty sites, there are plenty who will listen there. You might even be able to get your very own scumbag as a penpal; you can spend some money on it and feel better about yourself!

Maybe I should make that my siggy, since I always seem to be repeating myself....  ;D ;D ;D
"Indeed, the decision that capital punishment may be the appropriate sanction in extreme cases is an expression of the community's belief that certain crimes are themselves so grievous an affront to humanity that the only adequate response may be the penalty of death."  SCOTUS

Peace and Comfort to all Victims and Families

JeffB

In another thread Frenchy posted:

I am pretty sure that Yorki the Troll has acted for 'Fair Trials International'. This irritating organisation has a number of Nimbys who try to impose the 'British way' on other nations and consider any country that pursues the DP as savages.

I insist that Yorky address this.

On the other hand, I really don't want to encourage her...  ;)   What a conundrum.....   ???
"SO SUCK IT YOU "BLUE COOLER" DOPE!"  -  Sylar24

JoeGuru



Yes there have been a number of failed cases. My point would be: Knowing that mistakes have been made, do you think its right to risk the death of an innocent man?


As I have said in the deleted thread, I challenge you to name one person that has been executed since 1976 in the USA and was later Proved innocent!

Quote from: Yorki3
Timothy Cole was exonerated by Texas in 2009 after being sentenced to a 25 year term. He died whilst incarcerated. Now yes its not a DP case...


Jim S.


Objection.  Non-responsive.

Quote from: Yorki3
But also, how many states are readily going to admit there ruling and legal system has sent an innocent man to his death?


Objection. Conspiratorial, paranoid, speculative, and the witness is obviously not an expert.

Quote from: Yorki3
Independents have taken out their own reports and returned decisions of innocence...


Objection.  Hearsay.

Quote from: Yorki3
Independent cases include Larry Griffin: where the University of Michigan Law School ran a report and returned 100% innocence verdict


Objection.  Not a court of competent jurisdiction.

Look Yorki: you came in here defending (among others) Hank Skinner.  The "prestigious" Medilldo Innocence Project "investigated" the circumstances surrounding Skinner's conviction and also came to the startling conclusion that Skinner was innocent and the real killer was, in fact, Uncle Bob who raped her, then dressed her back up again before beating her to death with an axe handle.  Hey, even ABC News got in on the act: http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/hank-skinner-minute-stay-execution-supreme-court-texas/story?id=10200157#.TynE8CPW9Go.

This darling of wrongful-conviction conspirators has a machine to push out all sorts of garbage and nonsense--when, in reality, there are some inconvenient "facts" they just can't explain away (but if you'd like to give it a go, here is a starting place: http://www.hankskinner.com/facts.html).

You also mentioned the "weak" case against Troy Davis.  Yes, lots of hype, lots of drum beating, innuendo, "recantations," "smoke-and-mirrors" (as a judge put it) and the list goes on.  But when the day came for Troy's lawyers to present their case, they declined to put any of these "recanting" witnesses on the stand for cross-examination.

Why?

I'll make it simple: [1] murder is not the only thing these killers will lie about and [2] if they told the truth, it would get them executed quicker.

So I understand why you can't answer Jim's question directly, or truthfully.  The truth wouldn't fit your agenda.


Angelstorms OL'Man

Yorki poo Hello are still here or did you go? I have asked More times then I care to count for proof on every thing you say. Well I give up. So I am going to do some digging on you.
This was designed to hurt....Its a SEAL Candace unless you have been there yo will never understand...

Yorki3

#28
February 02, 2012, 09:48:41 AM Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 12:22:55 PM by Yorki3

you seem to think you know alot about american justice system for an english person something odd with you  :o


Its called an education and wanting to better oneself. I also find it helps to at least have a basic understanding of the topic your debating. But that's just me....


Yorki  I want  to see where this is proven. I want  to see where the state admits it Convicted the wrong person.

Also yorki do you know how to tell when a criminal  is lieing out his  out there azz???  Because I do.


I cant help but feel the legal profession was your vocation. Its amazing what you find training at the X-Men Training Facility these days. Personally I think that Gambit had the coolest power, but 'knowing when every criminal is lying' is pretty awesome too!


Yorki,

First of all, Jim asked you to show ONE case where an innocent person was executed.  You didn't, but opted instead to throw out a red herring to deflect that you had no proof and to keep your claim alive and breathing, ie, the Cole life in prison case.  Nice try, but..FAIL!

Secondly, Troy Davis was guilty as hell. 

Please come up with some better arguments if you're expecting to sway any of the folks here because they were innocent until PROVEN guilty and sorry, but not ALL of them are "victims" just because you and the rest of the anti's don't like the Death Penalty.

Oh yeah...and support for the DP IS NOT falling in the US, it is growing.  Please provide me with proof that it is or cease and desist with pushing that personal opinion as factual information.

Thank you...


Firstly, I stressed in my post - try using this ability called 'reading' that Cole WASN'T a DP case but died whilst wrongfully convicted. The point I was raising (I didn't realise just how hard it would be to grasp) was that a DP is not adjudged against any higher barrier for culpability and it is still a trial by juror. It is still 'beyond all reasonable doubt' and the charges are still dealt with by the same legal personnel. I was therefore pointing out this could show the POTENTIAL for mistake in any criminal trial, which includes DP cases. [Please note - I said POTENTIAL. I have not said ALL accused are innocent. Simply that there is the POTENTIAL for mistake. I don't actually expect any of you to recall this part when you respond].

Secondly, where have I have ever mentioned Troy Davis??? Please Copy and Paste MY post relating to Mr Davies. I think you will find the writer of the article, which I copied and pasted, raised that topic (I find the website hyperlink gives a lot of hints that I may not have written the article - for future reference).

Thirdly, I have never said "ALL accused are victims" - once again provide post proof that I have. I will say it again (please note im expecting to have to repeat this at some point in the future) A Large Majority of Accused Are Guilty.

Fourthly, once again your simply just making my posts up for me now. Where have I said that support for the DP is fading. Although now its brought up it has decreased since the 80's when people bloody loved it - couldn't get enough. On the last opinion polls (which dated to 2010) it was 61% in favour with 35% against and 4% abstaining. Its strange how execution levels have decreased year upon year and more states are abolishing it. Why are the 61 losing to the 35?


It's all part of her charm...   ;)


Coming from the gentlemen who's forum moto is 'Does this rag smell of Chloroform' - i rest my case your honour.


I also note there is yet no comment on the news articles on Rodrigo, where he ADMITS HIS GUILT on 2 murders.


Once again putting words into my mouth. Your all very good at that one. Why don't you just set up a blank account, called 'thug loving anti' and then just make posts up for it. Please post evidence where I have said Hernandez was innocent? But I will save you the trouble...Hernandez was guilty - Yorki3 2012. I don't think many would question culpability being the issue in that execution.


In another thread Frenchy posted:

I am pretty sure that Yorki the Troll has acted for 'Fair Trials International'. This irritating organisation has a number of Nimbys who try to impose the 'British way' on other nations and consider any country that pursues the DP as savages.

I insist that Yorky address this.


Whats to address...you hypothesised something you've made up (again). Its like me saying 'I bet you love moonshine and firing a gun wildly into the air'. Baseless nonsense once more. But to end your conundrum, the answer is NO I haven't had any dealings with them. Although why you protest against people gaining a fair trial is beyond me. Perhaps you should team up with khirskorn and he can tell you who's lying and then dispose of right then and there. The land of the free! Ah

And Finally,

JoeGuru - You have written a well articulated piece there and you haven't posted as much as the rest. Im more than happy to converse in this mature fashion - makes a change. But please note from the outset that I have never "defended" Hank Skinner at all...and if people claim I do then please provide evidence of the such. My only reference to Hank was the grey area cast by his request for DNA testing. I immediately stressed (as you will find I have done plenty of times in this message - but its usually ignored) that I knew very little of the case and therefore could not profess to give fair comment. Certainly many will play the system to prolong the longevity of their existence...but as someone who knows only the basics facts (there I have stressed that again) surely just run the DNA test...prove guilt and then execute. It would also prove as a great tool in the PRO-DP arsenal because it would show the world that criminal do and will lie - cant be a bad thing from you're point of view?


And my last part - please can you ALL take note that when dealing in a "Me against the World" situation that I find It hard to reply to everyone. The length of this message is testament to that fact. I do have a day job and a life outside of the computer.

ICE75

#29
February 02, 2012, 12:08:48 PM Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 12:12:49 PM by ICE75
msg107561#msg107561 date=1328120294]

Yorki,

First of all, Jim asked you to show ONE case where an innocent person was executed.  You didn't, but opted instead to throw out a red herring to deflect that you had no proof and to keep your claim alive and breathing, ie, the Cole life in prison case.  Nice try, but..FAIL!

Secondly, Troy Davis was guilty as hell. 

Please come up with some better arguments if you're expecting to sway any of the folks here because they were innocent until PROVEN guilty and sorry, but not ALL of them are "victims" just because you and the rest of the anti's don't like the Death Penalty.

Oh yeah...and support for the DP IS NOT falling in the US, it is growing.  Please provide me with proof that it is or cease and desist with pushing that personal opinion as factual information.

Thank you...


Quote
Firstly, I stressed in my post - try using this ability called 'reading' that Cole WASN'T a DP case but died whilst wrongfully convicted. The point I was raising (I didn't realise just how hard it would be to grasp) was that a DP is not adjudged against any higher barrier for culpability and it is still a trial by juror. It is still 'beyond all reasonable doubt' and the charges are still dealt with by the same legal personnel. I was therefore pointing out this could show the POTENTIAL for mistake in any criminal trial, which includes DP cases. [Please note - I said POTENTIAL. I have not said ALL accused are innocent. Simply that there is the POTENTIAL for mistake. I don't actually expect any of you to recall this part when you respond].


No, I saw your word potential, but your entire argument is a red herring.  Since 'ye be learned', go andm look that up because it is a tactic you are using .                           

Quote
Secondly, where have I have ever mentioned Troy Davis??? Please Copy and Paste MY post relating to Mr Davies. I think you will find the writer of the article, which I copied and pasted, raised that topic (I find the website hyperlink gives a lot of hints that I may not have written the article - for future reference).


You make mention of Mr. Davis in the first paragraph by citing the article.  Sorry, but you cannot get a pass by throwing out a subject via someone else's argument and then claiming that you aren't using it.  You most certainly are.  Confounding isn't it...this whole writing thing.  If you desire to give out a different opinion, you would need to tell the reader something to the affect of this is an interesting read, not that I agree with all of it but check it out!  You threw it out there to start controversy.  Don't cleim non-relation when it comes.

Quote
Thirdly, I have never said "ALL accused are victims" - once again provide post proof that I have. I will say it again (please note im expecting to have to repeat this at some point in the future) A Large Majority of Accused Are Guilty.


You are correct here. You never said that, you just have that mindset that most anti's do where you defend every scumbag on DR whether they were caught with a bloody knife in hand or not.  I am quite shocked to see that you admit that a large majority are guilty, but you'd better watch language like that because the anti's routinely scour this website and they will pull your 'bleeding heart leftist anti-death penalty ' card if they see that type of rhetoric from their clan.  lol

Quote
Fourthly, once again your simply just making my posts up for me now. Where have I said that support for the DP is fading. Although now its brought up it has decreased since the 80's when people bloody loved it - couldn't get enough. On the last opinion polls (which dated to 2010) it was 61% in favour with 35% against and 4% abstaining. Its strange how execution levels have decreased year upon year and more states are abolishing it. Why are the 61 losing to the 35?


Once again, guilty by association.  You throw an article out there and then use it as your talking point.  Don't expect to do that here and not be called on it.  And the 61% aren't really loosing to the 35%.  Haven't you seen where the drug companies have stopped 'allowing' their drugs for executions in a veiled attempt to induce their own opinions on the subject into the argument?  Guess what, the states have all responded by using pheno.  Sounds like the majority is alive and well there.  Additionally, don't let the tyranny of the minority get you all riled up.  That, unfortunately is how America works most of the time.  Look at poll after poll regarding the ballooning deficit. The majority does not want that to continue, but guess who controls that?  Politicians.  Guess who controls whether the DP statys in effect in the individual states?  The politicians.

ICE75

"The Declaration of Independence only guarantees the American People the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself!"   Benjamin Franklin

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